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  #1  
Old 12-16-2005, 12:38 AM
SackUp SackUp is offline
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Default Folding AA for one bet??

The Donk is 40/13/1.64
Raiser is a TAG 16/10/2.3

Flop - Cap?
Turn - Get away?
River - Folding a monster pot for 1??
Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (16 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 3-bets</font>, Button folds, SB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (14 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, SB folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (20 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero folds, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 22 BB
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  #2  
Old 12-16-2005, 12:53 AM
Piiop Piiop is offline
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Default Re: Folding AA for one bet??

So, which one is TAG and which one is Donk?

I don't really like your flop/turn play but I think the river fold is good.

I'd rather you capped the flop or raised the turn bet than call the flop 3bet call/call both turn bets.
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  #3  
Old 12-16-2005, 01:55 AM
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Default Re: Folding AA for one bet??

only calling the flop raise is ok if you're planning to c/r the turn, but the turn is a clear c/r IMO b/c at this point the only hand that has u beat it QQ, and he is a 2.3, so his flop raise is not all that unexpected... he could very easily be playing AQ in this situation.... w/ that being said, while probably correct in this circumstance, I'm still calling the river w/ the pot this big knowing that I'm probably up vs AQ behind me, and there's a chance that the donk is taking a stab at the pot... I think ur good here enough 2 warrant a call in a pot that size
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  #4  
Old 12-16-2005, 04:00 AM
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Default Re: Folding AA for one bet??

FLOP: Assuming the flop 3 bettor is the donk, you should be capping this flop, this is an oustanding board for your one pair hand, not only do you likely have the best hand on the flop, but more importantly you are very likely to have the best hand by the river. Go ahead and cap this and get more money in the pot. You cant protect your hand, so go to plan B and raise for value.

TURN: Given how you played the flop, you must raise this turn! You have a golden opportunity to protect your hand with a raise in this very large pot, in the long run you cannot afford to pass these kind of opportunities up. Given the way you played it, you should certainly call the turn raise, you can easily still have the best hand.

RIVER: You cannot fold your hand here!! The pot is huge, and you have under-represented your hand and youre actually a strong favorite to have the UTG+1 beat, if the UTG+1 has QQ,99, or 88, then he played his hand awfully strange, The UTG+1 is much more likely to have a hand like AQ here than anything else. The Donks hand is still not that defined. All we know is that he likes his hand which could be anything from Qx to a flopped set. With all this uncertainty, you must call this river bet. I promise you will win here more than 1/21 times. And if you are worried about a raise happening behind you, dont be. Since I believe you hand will be good here more than 1/13.5 times, you can even stand this pesky risk.
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  #5  
Old 12-16-2005, 07:29 AM
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Default Re: Folding AA for one bet??

no way i cold call the 3-bet here.. i cap this flop without a doubt.. by you cold calling you're obviously worried about other hands when you shouldnt be.

obviously UTG+1 is coming because he has lead out pretty much every betting around reguardless of the raiser.. SO from my POV that says KK out loud and you have him killed. the villain (raiser) is the guy to worry about.. but if hes a total bonehead he could do this w/ AQ.

im not so sure i fold this for 1 bet.. its a HUGE pot.. you have to be right a lot in this case more than wrong w/ a huge pot like this.
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  #6  
Old 12-16-2005, 10:49 AM
mikeyKay mikeyKay is offline
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Default Re: Folding AA for one bet??

I would probably cap the flop with my overpair and BD flush draw.

Not raising the turn leaves you in no mans land, between a bettor and raiser, and makes the hand very hard to play.

I think its much eaiser for everyone to say call once they see that MP3 only calls the river bet. I think you have no reason to beleive that MP3 isnt going to pop the river again...so it makes the call a little different. Another responder said your odds facing a call, then a raise are still pretty good, but given the aggression factor of MP3 I can't see much you are ahead once he raises the river.

Is calling and folding to raise the worst play in the world?

-mike
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  #7  
Old 12-16-2005, 12:41 PM
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Default Re: Folding AA for one bet??

[ QUOTE ]
FLOP: Assuming the flop 3 bettor is the donk, you should be capping this flop, this is an oustanding board for your one pair hand, not only do you likely have the best hand on the flop, but more importantly you are very likely to have the best hand by the river. Go ahead and cap this and get more money in the pot. You cant protect your hand, so go to plan B and raise for value.

TURN: Given how you played the flop, you must raise this turn! You have a golden opportunity to protect your hand with a raise in this very large pot, in the long run you cannot afford to pass these kind of opportunities up. Given the way you played it, you should certainly call the turn raise, you can easily still have the best hand.

RIVER: You cannot fold your hand here!! The pot is huge, and you have under-represented your hand and youre actually a strong favorite to have the UTG+1 beat, if the UTG+1 has QQ,99, or 88, then he played his hand awfully strange, The UTG+1 is much more likely to have a hand like AQ here than anything else. The Donks hand is still not that defined. All we know is that he likes his hand which could be anything from Qx to a flopped set. With all this uncertainty, you must call this river bet. I promise you will win here more than 1/21 times. And if you are worried about a raise happening behind you, dont be. Since I believe you hand will be good here more than 1/13.5 times, you can even stand this pesky risk.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Except maybe calling a river raise.
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  #8  
Old 12-16-2005, 01:54 PM
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Default Re: Folding AA for one bet??

I didnt explicitly say it but, if I call the river bet, and the villain raises behind and its not 3 bet in front of me, I am calling here. At this point I'll be getting 25-1 on my call, since I am confident I will win in this spot more than 1/26 times im calling.
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  #9  
Old 12-16-2005, 02:10 PM
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Default Re: Folding AA for one bet??

[ QUOTE ]
So, which one is TAG and which one is Donk?

I don't really like your flop/turn play but I think the river fold is good.
I'd rather you capped the flop or raised the turn bet than call the flop 3bet call/call both turn bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding the river would make me puke. I don't like that idea at all. You might as well quit playing poker if you are willing to forfeit this huge pot.
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  #10  
Old 12-16-2005, 02:14 PM
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Default Re: Folding AA for one bet??

If you had the button then maybe, but if the action goes bet, call, THEN raise, the raiser has better than one pair just about every time. Especially on such a coordinated board.
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