What is your push range here?

[ZBTHorton]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Alot higher than any 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope your joking. This is push any two, and not close. You have just 3XBB, and on the Button need to get by only two people to increase your stack by 50%, and if you get called, should not be in awful shape. The longer you wait the more people you will have to get through.

[/ QUOTE ]

You act as if I'm going to steal the blinds here. It's not going to happen. I don't care how many players I'm going through. I want either

A: A hand that plays well multi-way. or
B: A good coin flip hand or

I much rather play 32o and get 1 caller, than to play lets say a small/medium pair or one broadway card and get 2 callers. There is no way I want to miss this opportunity and just wait hoping for a better hand to come.

[ZBTHorton]

[ QUOTE ]
I much rather play 32o and get 1 caller, than to play lets say a small/medium pair or one broadway card and get 2 callers. There is no way I want to miss this opportunity and just wait hoping for a better hand to come.

[/ QUOTE ]

That makes no sense.

If you push 3-2os into a RANDOM hand you have 32% equity.

If you push 44 into Any Broadway and Any Suited 32% equity to triple up.

If you push 44 into Any Broadway and Any Broadway you have 34% equity to triple up.

[illegit]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Alot higher than any 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope your joking. This is push any two, and not close. You have just 3XBB, and on the Button need to get by only two people to increase your stack by 50%, and if you get called, should not be in awful shape. The longer you wait the more people you will have to get through.

[/ QUOTE ]

You act as if I'm going to steal the blinds here. It's not going to happen. I don't care how many players I'm going through. I want either

A: A hand that plays well multi-way. or
B: A good coin flip hand or

[/ QUOTE ]
Part of what we were assuming the BB was big stack and would therefore call with any decent holding. Sure with his stack size he could probably call with ANY holding but he probably won't. Let's say he calls up to the top 50% of ands and the SB calls w/ top 20%. Even with this limited amount of FE there's still no way you can pass this edge up. Since the times you get 2 folds you increase your stack by FIFTY freaking percent.

Sure you can wait for a better holding in the next 9 hands or so but even if you pick up something reasonable you're going to have even less FE with the monster stack still behind you plus a bunch of other players added to the mix.

If you're certain you have no FE whatsoever here then yeah, might as well wait. But if you have even a little you should push.

[ZBTHorton]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Alot higher than any 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope your joking. This is push any two, and not close. You have just 3XBB, and on the Button need to get by only two people to increase your stack by 50%, and if you get called, should not be in awful shape. The longer you wait the more people you will have to get through.

[/ QUOTE ]

You act as if I'm going to steal the blinds here. It's not going to happen. I don't care how many players I'm going through. I want either

A: A hand that plays well multi-way. or
B: A good coin flip hand or

[/ QUOTE ]
Part of what we were assuming the BB was big stack and would therefore call with any decent holding. Sure with his stack size he could probably call with ANY holding but he probably won't. Let's say he calls up to the top 50% of ands and the SB calls w/ top 20%. Even with this limited amount of FE there's still no way you can pass this edge up. Since the times you get 2 folds you increase your stack by FIFTY freaking percent.

Sure you can wait for a better holding in the next 9 hands or so but even if you pick up something reasonable you're going to have even less FE with the monster stack still behind you plus a bunch of other players added to the mix.

If you're certain you have no FE whatsoever here then yeah, might as well wait. But if you have even a little you should push.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the BB folds here, he is an absolutely atrocious poker player.

You do realize that Any pair will call you too and thinking that any suited will call when there is one more caller is thinking way too loose. 44 into 2 people... nah, but hey with this stack sure. I still push with 32o from the button here any day.

[illegit]

[ QUOTE ]

If the BB folds here, he is an absolutely atrocious poker player.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, but I see big stacks folding in similar spots often. They're usually not THIS big, but still. Again, the premise was a hypothetical and our read on the BB is that he will call with any decent holding. If that's the case then is this not a push withy any 2?

[tdizzle]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Alot higher than any 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope your joking. This is push any two, and not close. You have just 3XBB, and on the Button need to get by only two people to increase your stack by 50%, and if you get called, should not be in awful shape. The longer you wait the more people you will have to get through.

[/ QUOTE ]

You act as if I'm going to steal the blinds here. It's not going to happen. I don't care how many players I'm going through. I want either

A: A hand that plays well multi-way. or
B: A good coin flip hand or

[/ QUOTE ]
Part of what we were assuming the BB was big stack and would therefore call with any decent holding. Sure with his stack size he could probably call with ANY holding but he probably won't. Let's say he calls up to the top 50% of ands and the SB calls w/ top 20%. Even with this limited amount of FE there's still no way you can pass this edge up. Since the times you get 2 folds you increase your stack by FIFTY freaking percent.

Sure you can wait for a better holding in the next 9 hands or so but even if you pick up something reasonable you're going to have even less FE with the monster stack still behind you plus a bunch of other players added to the mix.

If you're certain you have no FE whatsoever here then yeah, might as well wait. But if you have even a little you should push.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am certain I have no fold equity here. The bb is getting 2.25:1 on a call which translates to the need to have 30% equity. So he would be justified in calling with any 2 cards. I would push all in here with all but my weakest holdings. Pushing all in here with 23o or 24o is just reckless imo.

[gobboboy]

[ QUOTE ]
Alot higher than any 2.

If I'm on the button, I've got 7 hands to see something better than 10-8o

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the correct answer.

Do you see why?

For many of the reasons stated above, and I'm surprised you guys don't agree with this. If there was an ante I would be hard pressed not to push soon, but you have a LOT of hands to pick a good one to go in with. Granted, your range is still suited connectors, any two broadway, any ace, any pair, but I am NOT pushing 93o here.

[ZBTHorton]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Alot higher than any 2.

If I'm on the button, I've got 7 hands to see something better than 10-8o

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the correct answer.

Do you see why?

For many of the reasons stated above, and I'm surprised you guys don't agree with this. If there was an ante I would be hard pressed not to push soon, but you have a LOT of hands to pick a good one to go in with. Granted, your range is still suited connectors, any two broadway, any ace, any pair, but I am NOT pushing 93o here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with the ante statement, and thought I typed that into my original response..guess I deleted it.