Folding the nut flush with outs

spydog · #1 10-27-2005, 08:48 AM

Villian is a TAG (22/17/2 over 600 hands). No unusual history between us.

Is this crazy or expert?

Party Poker 5.00/10.00 Hold'em (6 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 1 folds, Button 3-bets, SB calls, 1 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.00 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, SB folds, Hero 3-bets, Button calls.

Turn: (8.00 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero folds......

krishanleong · #2 10-27-2005, 08:51 AM

really really aweful I think. Just get to showdown.

Krishan

#3 10-27-2005, 08:53 AM

So, you're saying he definitely has AA? That's the only hand he could have that beats you.

Stefan_K · #4 10-27-2005, 08:53 AM

hmm intressting.. the pot is very big so i would pray to see ATs and call down (and if you are behind you still have outs [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img])

Curious why bet-3bet insteed of checkrais?

spydog · #5 10-27-2005, 08:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
hmm intressting.. the pot is very big so i would pray to see ATs and call down

Curious why bet-3bet insteed of checkrais?

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet/3-bet because I think it's the best way to get AK to fold on the turn. Most TAGs will not lay down to a flop CR on a paired board with Ace hi. They normally call it down. I think bet/3-betting is the only way I can win this hand unimproved.

spydog · #6 10-27-2005, 08:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So, you're saying he definitely has AA? That's the only hand he could have that beats you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm...TT plays this the same 80% of the time.

Danenania · #7 10-27-2005, 08:59 AM

I think you'll get more bluff equity on a board like this by checkraising the flop (also taking some of SB's money). Leading just gets you HU with the hands that you don't want to be HU with.

As for the turn fold...good fold. Even if he raised ATs preflop, which is unlikely, he wouldn't cap the turn with it. You are drawing to 1 out against all his possible holdings (and obviously you don't have odds to see a river.)

#8 10-27-2005, 09:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So, you're saying he definitely has AA? That's the only hand he could have that beats you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm...TT plays this the same 80% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]
I beg to differ considering his flop raise.

#9 10-27-2005, 09:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hmm intressting.. the pot is very big so i would pray to see ATs and call down

Curious why bet-3bet insteed of checkrais?

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet/3-bet because I think it's the best way to get AK to fold on the turn. Most TAGs will not lay down to a flop CR on a paired board with Ace hi. They normally call it down. I think bet/3-betting is the only way I can win this hand unimproved.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think he meant on the turn. I'm curious about that too.

EDIT: Disregard...I completely misread the flop action.

Danenania · #10 10-27-2005, 09:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hmm intressting.. the pot is very big so i would pray to see ATs and call down

Curious why bet-3bet insteed of checkrais?

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet/3-bet because I think it's the best way to get AK to fold on the turn. Most TAGs will not lay down to a flop CR on a paired board with Ace hi. They normally call it down. I think bet/3-betting is the only way I can win this hand unimproved.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising with AK on that flop is pretty bad and most tags won't do it. Most of the time you are getting raised by an overpair then 3-betting it...not a good situation.