The worst played set ever?

Wired Jokers · #1 05-07-2005, 11:41 AM

I am posting the results in this hand because quite frankly, I think I played it correctly. My opponent played it poorly. But it got me to thinking about a situation we may be in from time to time, and what is the best line to take.

Live $6/12 at Harrah's, NO. This is one of 4 hands I played in 2 hours. I've only been at table 15 minutes, but can tell the whole table sucks, and is incredibly passive. Only one guy is any good, and he is not in this hand. Villian is a Little Old Lady who must have a VP$IP of 75%, and will bet the flop if checked to 100% of time. She is very passive on the later streets.

Hero dealt A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in BB. 10 handed.

UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Little Old Lady (LOL) calls, SB calls, Hero raises, all call.

Flop (10 SB) 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, LOL bets, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG folds, MP1 calls.

Turn (6.5 BB) A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero checks, MP1 checks, LOL bets, Hero raises, MP1 folds, LOL calls

River (10.5 BB) Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Hero bets, LOL calls. LOL turns up 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and MHING.

Terrible. But in the time spent later folding hand after hand, I'm wondering what the best line for LOL would have been. Lets put ourselves - as decent players - in LOL position and assume that in her position, we note that BB (me) is a competent player and pretty ABC to this point. I won't discuss pre-flop and flop since they were played correctly from LOL's standpoint.

On the turn, holding a set of 4's, you are checkraised from the big blind after an Ace hits. It is obvious to you that BB has hit his overcard (given his pre-flop and flop actions) and since he is competent, you can probably put him on AK, AQ or AJs. AA is unlikely due to the flop call. How do you maximize the return on your set?

Option #1: Three-bet? Well, a three-bet is probably going to cause good player in BB to simply call, and check/call the river, provided he does not improve. Net result for you: 2 BB

Option #2: Call the check-raise, and pop the BB on the river. Most likely, the BB will call the raise and your net result will be 2 BB. But, in this situation, you have the potentail for BB to 3 bet, esp. if the river card improved him (as it did in this situation).

I don't know. I hate leaving bets on the table on the turn; however, against a thinking opponent, a river raise may be more appropriate. Help me throught this problem.

toss · #2 05-07-2005, 11:59 AM

Hmmmm I think I might go ahead a not raise PF. Does anyone think I'm crazy?

brazilio · #3 05-07-2005, 12:08 PM

I've been trying to avoid checking/completing with raising hands when I'm sure I've got an equity edge, so yes.

mr pink · #4 05-07-2005, 01:21 PM

i might have check raised the flop given your read.

Redeye · #5 05-07-2005, 01:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmmm I think I might go ahead a not raise PF. Does anyone think I'm crazy

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, especially at a table full of bad players where you have an equity advantage.

Redeye · #6 05-07-2005, 01:30 PM

The little old lady should be 3-betting the turn. You're odds on improving are slim as to it reall making a difference. Also, what if you improve to top two? Your always going to be scared of a set and check-call the river? I think thats bad, IMO, and your little old lady can get another bet from you when you bet out your improved two pair on the river.

lighterjobs · #7 05-07-2005, 02:03 PM

I definately wouldn't have raised the BB with AQ. that's a pretty weak play. I would have raised the flop if your read on the lol is she always bets the flop.

kurosh · #8 05-07-2005, 03:04 PM

3-bet the turn with a set of 4's and it's not close.

Wired Jokers · #9 05-07-2005, 03:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I definately wouldn't have raised the BB with AQ. that's a pretty weak play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hardly. NOT raising AQ from the BB against a table of stiffs is the weak play.

Check-raising the flop is a viable option, but with no backdoor straight or flush draws, I thought it better to call in this situation, and re-evaluate on the turn.

brazilio · #10 05-07-2005, 03:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I definately wouldn't have raised the BB with AQ. that's a pretty weak play. I would have raised the flop if your read on the lol is she always bets the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do understand that you should be raising from any position when you've got an equity advantage, don't you? Not raising this hand preflop is stupid and weak.