20/40 Getting aggressive

[Michael Emery]

So I've read all the replys and finally got what I was looking for in lane mcbrides response. In fact, they wrote almost my exact thoughts that occured as I was playing the hand.

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4 handed, I don't hate it at all. I think you are most likely ahead unless he is a tricky player. you really aren't losing to many hands unless he limped with aces or a concealed pair. the only thing I'm afraid of is a third four (which I don't think he had).

I would say most likely he limped with ace high maybe akx or aj10 or something... and bet fourth as a "delayed steal"
on fifth when he pairs, I give him credit for a pair of fours and that's about it, I think it is just another attempt to continue his steal since he caught a little something. I think your fives are most likely ahead, but I tend to get a little aggressive short-handed, so perhaps take it for what it's worth.


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I'll add more. What is everyone so worried about here? We have a new player who joins the game and is not a regular. He limps (based on these two things right here I would say more often than not hes a weak player) and has an automatic bet on fourth street against me, the bring-in, with his ace high.

So he bets and I raise, he just calls. Notice that this opponent would have to be very tricky to play a hand like split aces (or the like) on third like this. He would not only have to limp, but smooth call my fourth street raise as well. I think this is unlikely. In fact, I'm betting 7 out of 8 times here that he has an unpaired hand. Some people advocated that while they didnt mind my raise they liked a possible call instead. How do you play fifth then? If you both blank and he fires again are you calling or folding? What info have you found out about his hand? Part of my reason for raising here was to probe what I was up against. If I got three-bet I was simply mucking. Calling here just dosent get you anywhere and makes the hand hard to play on fifth and possibly later.

So after he calls my fourth street raise he leads out on fifth when he makes open fours. Of course he does! He will usually always be betting here whether he has just the open fours, or if I have read him wrong and he has better. Judging from his third and fourth street actions I still think its far more likely I'm ahead. So now the question becomes what to do.

The final result of this hand is that my opponent thought and folded when I raised him on fifth after he bet. I fully realize that many opponents will simply not even fold their lone open fours here in the same situation. However, the fact that I had assigned myself as still being ahead, plus the fact that he might very well fold his open fours on fifth (which is hugely to my benefit), made a raise correct in my mind. I also realize that this whole play is risky and sometimes I will look like a Laggish dolt when I run into something. Be that as it may though, I still like my line given the circumstances. Not saying its right, just that I like it. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I'd feel the same even if it backfired.

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Mike will not get people to stop playing ABC poker because it is too easy to beat small games playing ABC.

But as you move up in limits and play in tougher games, plays like this one are important to add to one's arsenal. Otherwise, you will constantly wonder why people are always folding when you have the nuts.


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I just wanted to reiterate what blumpkin said above and what I talked about in an earlier post regarding this benefit. Essentially, metagame purposes for occasionaly making this type of play add on more than you might think when you are against observant opponents.

Mike Emery

[jon_1van]

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I just wanted to reiterate what blumpkin said above and what I talked about in an earlier post regarding this benefit. Essentially, metagame purposes for occasionaly making this type of play add on more than you might think when you are against observant opponents.

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Obviously you have to have observant opponents for this.

Anyway, I was hoping he called your 5th street bet and bet out into you on 6th. (And hopefully you get a 2nd pair like 7s) That would have made the hand more fun.

[frappeboy]

This is classic "Donator" thinking. Thank you for keeping food on my table.... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].. Seriously though I like 4th street. Shorthanded you can't let people push you around. There is a line in 7CS4AP that says something like "Sometimes you need to splash the pot around against aggressive players to stop them from getting value with their semi bluffs". This could be one of those situations.

5th street is definitely either fold or raise. Calling is really terrible. I only learned 1 thing from the Barry Greenstein book "Ace on the River", and that's you're better off attempting to make the right play rather than settling on something in between. In this hand either you are ahead or way behind. When you are ahead you can't let your opponent get a shot at catching one of his overcards and beating you. When you're behind it's better off finding out now than later.

Personally I still think I would fold 5th street, but then again im the biggest wuss on partypoker. I guess I'll end this post with a quote from rounders:

"You can't make what you don't put in the middle"

[BeerMoney]

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Essentially, metagame purposes for occasionaly making this type of play add on more than you might think when you are against observant opponents.

Mike Emery

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Mike, I assume you are validating part of this play with its metagame value.. Did you show your opponent your hand?