Bet the river please.

[ResidentParanoid]

Bob, your thoughts in this post are good. Your example is not. You should use this example for a thread titled, "Maximimizing your EV with the nuts heads-up when checked to". The example for your thread should have included something like a top pair or two-pair when a flush card hits vs a nobody.

Haven't visited the SS forum for a while, but it's nice to see that jason_t is keeping a great tradition of blunt honesty alive!

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's say that Bob raises KQs preflop instead of KJ s. Now he has second pair. He bets the scary flop and gets called. He checks behind on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
I prefer betting the turn and taking the free showdown.

[meep_42]

I think a lot of you are missing the point.

This particular example doesn't matter, he could have had JTs here. The same principle applys --

[ QUOTE ]
So the board was AQT97, and he had 76 for a pair of 7s no kicker. Think for a second, and try and figure out which hands I could have, that I raised preflop with, that he could beat.

Then realize, that if you don't make a lot of value bets against this player, you are leaving a lot of money on the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

He calls you with sh[/i]itty hands, you need to value bet weaker holdings. Many, many SS players will call you down with very little. Therefore, many of us aren't value betting the river enough.

-d

[Rico Suave]

meep:

[ QUOTE ]
I think a lot of you are missing the point

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree!

Bob is simply illustrating that people will call the river with all kinds of crap.....and I think this is a perfect illustration of that. Bob's hand is irrelevant.....his opponent called with 76 on a board of AQT97 after Bob raised preflop....that is the point!

--Rico

[Azhrarn]

On a related note, am I the only who thinks like this?

Let's say I'm out of position with a marginal hand on the river. Maybe I was on a draw and hit a low pair, maybe I was getting pot odds to chase a two pair, maybe I'm just playing my hand passively this time. Whatever. A scary river card has fallen, I check, and the pre-flop raiser bets the river, just like he bet the turn and flop.

I'm more likely to call him now than I would be if the river was a blank. Why? Because a lot of players will check behind with a lot of mediocre hands that beat me because of the scare card. So it's more likely he either has a strong hand or he's bluffing. And I can beat a bluff.

And sometimes my opponent shows me one of those marginal hands that beat me that I thought would check behind, and my respect for him grows. And my undying hatred.

[Bob T.]

I'm more likely to call him now than I would be if the river was a blank. Why? Because a lot of players will check behind with a lot of mediocre hands that beat me because of the scare card. So it's more likely he either has a strong hand or he's bluffing. And I can beat a bluff.


If I think he is capable of bluffing from the beginning, I think that this is a reasonable thought. But at the same time, if he was semibluffing, and a scare card appears on the river, then one of the hands that he might have been semibluffing just came in, and it makes it more likely that he was either betting value all along, or that he just passed me.

If I have marginal values, and I am not sure where I am on a hand, I might call the flop, but when a scare card comes on the turn, I will give my opponent credit for either a better hand, or a draw that likely just came in.

And sometimes my opponent shows me one of those marginal hands that beat me that I thought would check behind, and my respect for him grows. And my undying hatred.

Yeah [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

[Bob T.]

[ QUOTE ]
meep:

[ QUOTE ]
I think a lot of you are missing the point

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree!

Bob is simply illustrating that people will call the river with all kinds of crap.....and I think this is a perfect illustration of that. Bob's hand is irrelevant.....his opponent called with 76 on a board of AQT97 after Bob raised preflop....that is the point!

--Rico

[/ QUOTE ]

That was the whole point. Thanks. I thought my hand was irrelevant to the point, because I could have made a value bet with a lot less than the nuts, and still have gotten paid off. Maybe next time I will find a thinner example.