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  #31  
Old 12-29-2005, 05:28 AM
kurosh kurosh is offline
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Posts: 341
Default Re: 3-bet J10s against good player?

as always... the ansewr to this question is depends. you all think i am too lag,but i win a lot ,yes? whnyu dop yo uthnk that? hy do you thkn i never post. i have secrets. i will not tell ou my secrest. you need tofigure them ou ton our own. it depends. sometimes you 3bet with it. sometimes ou 3bet with trash . if you think theyu are weak. ifthey are oslidm then onlyh occasionaly. poker is a game of adapationats. you have to work it.

sometimes i start replying to a post, thnen realize i am giving too much informatoin away so i stop and delete it. there si so much 2p2 is missing... i know how to play thne tag style, you have to LEARN ALL HE STYLES. it is not even teh styole, it is the theory. YO UMUST LEARN THE FUNDAMENTALS, then yu can play whatever. i can play lag, i can play tag, i can play whatever the [censored] and i will always win becaues ia dapt to the table. yo uneed to adapt. sometimes you od it, sometimes you don't. sometimes i 3-bet the turn with nothing, sometimes i do it with the nuts., it is all about understanding.

do you nderstand/
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  #32  
Old 12-29-2005, 05:34 AM
kiddo kiddo is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Stockholm, Sweden, Europe
Posts: 335
Default Re: 3-bet J10s against good player?

[ QUOTE ]
as always... the ansewr to this question is depends. you all think i am too lag,but i win a lot ,yes? whnyu dop yo uthnk that? hy do you thkn i never post. i have secrets. i will not tell ou my secrest. you need tofigure them ou ton our own. it depends. sometimes you 3bet with it. sometimes ou 3bet with trash . if you think theyu are weak. ifthey are oslidm then onlyh occasionaly. poker is a game of adapationats. you have to work it.

sometimes i start replying to a post, thnen realize i am giving too much informatoin away so i stop and delete it. there si so much 2p2 is missing... i know how to play thne tag style, you have to LEARN ALL HE STYLES. it is not even teh styole, it is the theory. YO UMUST LEARN THE FUNDAMENTALS, then yu can play whatever. i can play lag, i can play tag, i can play whatever the [censored] and i will always win becaues ia dapt to the table. yo uneed to adapt. sometimes you od it, sometimes you don't. sometimes i 3-bet the turn with nothing, sometimes i do it with the nuts., it is all about understanding.

do you nderstand/


[/ QUOTE ]

It took u a long time saying same thing as me and Stellar, but hey: Cheers!
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  #33  
Old 12-29-2005, 05:57 AM
sweetjazz sweetjazz is offline
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Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 95
Default Re: 3-bet J10s against good player?

[ QUOTE ]

I think there are lots of recommendations around here to do or not do certain things because "we will get run over" or because "we will be easy to play against" that are misguided because they are based on the assumption that our opponent will both correctly assess AND correctly exploit the vulnerability of our actions. This is a leap that I am not prepared to make until the opponent proves it to me.


[/ QUOTE ]

Lots of good posts in this thread. This is certainly true for the mid-limit SH games I have played in (10/20 + 15/30). I made the mistake you alluded to, and I have found that I am playing much better now that I have gotten back to a more ABC game. I still make situational adjustments, but instead of semifrequently taking unorthodox lines to confuse my opponents, I only rarely deviate from what I think it the most +EV line for the hand. Taking into account the situational complexity of each decision randomizes my actions enough that the typical opponent at these levels really can't get a very accurate sense of how to exploit my play.
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  #34  
Old 12-29-2005, 05:57 AM
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Default Re: 3-bet J10s against good player?

if you're going to make this 3-bet it is a variation play and should be treated as such.
you are not currently ahead of villain's range, and your position cannot make up for this completely. if you 3-bet this every time, a "pretty good player" will catch on.
i would like it more if you had a lower suited connector, as at least that way you are less likely to be dominated. it's not as though jack-high is winning any showdowns here.
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  #35  
Old 12-29-2005, 09:02 AM
Wynton Wynton is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 18
Default Re: 3-bet J10s against good player?

[ QUOTE ]
if you're going to make this 3-bet it is a variation play and should be treated as such.

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely. I probably didn't emphasize this particular "edge" in enough in setting up the hypothetical, but it really was meant to be implied.

Like I said at the outset, my "default play" against this opponent is mucking, not 3-betting (though I can imagine some tables where calling could work). But I was imagining a situation where I had set up the play by playing relatively tight and, more important, not 3-betting this particular opponent previously.

I should also admit, though, the fact that I did not mention this particular condition at the outset is probably proof of some lazy thinking. In fact, the entire situation seems representative of a certain poker stage I'm at.

I feel like I'm beginning to get to the point of intuitively sensing some edges, but not yet to the point of understanding them thoroughly enough to articulate them.
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  #36  
Old 12-29-2005, 09:17 PM
dave44 dave44 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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Default Re: 3-bet J10s against good player?

Stellar, these last two posts were wonderfully crafted and helped bring some structure to a lot of the things that have been incoherently flying through my head for the last few months.

On the check-call, check-call, bet-fold line that you comment on. Something I just clarified in my mind today was that even if our opponent bluff raises us on the river at the perfect frequency so that he's giving us a 0 EV decision, we still need to make sure we are calling at an unexploitable frequency. We can't just say oh well either way doesn't matter I make nothing- you still really need to be calling a lot or else you're presenting your opponent a chance to bluff more profitably.
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  #37  
Old 12-29-2005, 09:36 PM
Victor Victor is offline
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Location: cleveland
Posts: 68
Default Re: 3-bet J10s against good player?

hi kurosh,

you are the best player ever imo.
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  #38  
Old 12-29-2005, 11:34 PM
bicyclekick bicyclekick is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Morris, MN
Posts: 416
Default Re: 3-bet J10s against good player?

[ QUOTE ]
If you're going to start 3 betting with the worst hand then your opponent had better like folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

end of story.

3 betting the villain in my oppinion in this hand is a mistake. i've been calling more and more lately but i'm not positive that's correct either but i've been having good success with it lately in similar spots.
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  #39  
Old 12-30-2005, 09:36 AM
dave44 dave44 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4
Default Re: 3-bet J10s against good player?

[ QUOTE ]
i've been calling more and more lately but i'm not positive that's correct either but i've been having good success with it lately in similar spots.

[/ QUOTE ]
What other hands are you cold-calling with in order to keep your opponents from pinpointing your hand here?
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