22 hand. Any way possible to get away from this?

ClaytonN · #1 01-11-2005, 12:25 AM

PS Satellite, Round 1 of Copenhagen tourney (20FPP). Using up last of 'em as I've cashed out there for the time being. Anyways...

26 remain, 290 entered. My chip stack is around 10th. I have approx. 22k in chips. Villain has 20k.

From reads I've gotten, Villain seems to be a TAG that favors smallish bets. He doesn't play many big pots, it seems.

Blinds are 300-600 Villain opens for a raise to 1200 from UTG+1. I look down at 22 and call. Two to the flop, I have position on him.

Flop comes K32 rainbow. He bets 3k, and I flat call.

Turn comes another 3, rainbow. He leads out again, this time for 4k. I min-raise to 8k, and he raises to 12k.

I push, he shows KK, I am crippled.

The PF call is questionable, as I felt that with position my 22 hand was +EV.

This is one of those hands where I'm 99.9% certain there is no way I'm not investing all my chips here.

Even with my read of villain as a TAG, who plays this differently?

zaxx19 · #2 01-11-2005, 12:41 AM

Absolutely not. If you get away from it you are playing incorrectly IMHO and losing EV in the longterm. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Set over set...AA over KK reasonably deep into a tourney....suckouts..all this stuff is just variance and should be treated as such by a player.

ClaytonN · #3 01-11-2005, 12:44 AM

Funny you should mention that.

30 minutes earlier, I'm in the BB and there are 5 limpers ahead of me, including SB. I look down at KK.

I push.

One of the limpers had AA, but Riverstars saved me. Woo!

jslag · #4 01-11-2005, 12:46 AM

A tight, aggressive player opened from early position. 22 is an easy fold here.

Since you decided to take a flop, I don't really see how you get away from the hand. K32 rainbow is a great flop for your hand.

If this were a cash game situation, then you might fold bottom set to a TAG, but in a FPP satellite, I don't think folding would ever be correct here.

Preflop, I would probably muck any pocket pair lower than 77.

ClaytonN · #5 01-11-2005, 12:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop, I would probably muck any pocket pair lower than 77.

[/ QUOTE ]

What if I said he was TAG preflop but LAP postflop?

I got position if I call.

How's 22 look now?

jslag · #6 01-11-2005, 02:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop, I would probably muck any pocket pair lower than 77.

[/ QUOTE ]

What if I said he was TAG preflop but LAP postflop?

I got position if I call.

How's 22 look now?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would still fold knowing the player utilizes tight hand selection and has raised from early position.

The problem with smaller pockets is that it's very hard to play them for anything other than a set.

For instance, a tightish player raises from UTG. You're in middle position with 22. The flop comes 884. UTG is loose and passive post-flop. He checks. You bet 1/2 the pot thinking your deuces are good.

Your opponent calls. The turn is another 4, making the board 8844. This counterfeits your 22 and you can't even beat Ace high now. If I had been holding something like 77 here, I can continue putting money in the pot if I put my opponent on unpaired overcards.

I just think the very small pockets are nearly unplayable unless you hit a set. You need very good reads on your opponents to play them for their pair value only.

You're only getting 1.75-to-1 on your preflop call.

You didn't mention your exact position (or I missed it) to the raiser. If you were on the button or CO, then the call is marginal. I think if you're in MP, the call is definitely -EV given your pot odds and with so many other stacks to act behind you.

Just my two cents...

TStoneMBD · #7 01-11-2005, 05:14 AM

the preflop call is reasonable if you think you have good control over the villain. i think that you should have raised the flop as its very unlikely to have hit you for anything other than a king. a turn card could kill your action and flat calling this flop significantly decreases the chance of you busting his stack. give him a chance to reraise you with his AK. youll make far more money from him this way then winning another small bet off QQ in the long run.

ijustliketoplay · #8 01-11-2005, 09:18 AM

Once you've called i don't see anyway of getting away from the set on the flop, and how you play that is immaterial - all your chips are going in. After all, what other kind of flop are you looking for? Its just a cold deck when that happens.

But i think jslag has a point when he questions the intial call. I think it really depends on the structure of the tournament. Is this a sattelite? Im not clear how many places pay etc

ClaytonN · #9 01-11-2005, 10:24 PM

It was a satellite, only two places paid to go to the BIG copenhagen satellite.

If I win the pot in question, I'm probably top 3 in chips with 25 remaining. That's huge.

Oh, and I was 1 seat right of CO.

The fact that only the top 2 paid influenced my decision a little. The objective was to take a small risk in order to win a huge pot.

SoCalPat · #10 01-11-2005, 10:57 PM

Brother, if you think any of us are able to find a way to get away from this hand after the flop, then we should be asking you the questions and not vice-versa [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

In all seriousness, you pretty much answered your own question. If your read on the villian is right, this is an easy muck PF -- even moreso in a satellite where you've got nothing if you go out here.