$11: JJ early game, interesting hand

[45suited]

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BTW I don't think that the line is completely off, but I still think that a flop bet is the best way to determine where you stand.

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See that's the problem with his huge pre-flop raise. There was not significant money in the pot at that point, so all he did is create a huge pot (if called) that is difficult to play in the (common) event that overs fall.

After his raise, he was down to t615 with, significantly, two callers. The pot size was already t565 at that point. Any real C-bet is going to take a very large chunk of his remaining stack, and to me, with two callers of the huge PF raise, it's too likely that one of them checked an ace.

As the hand played out, I like the way he played it post flop. But again, I don't see the point of such a huge raise pre-flop. There are times when I'll push JJ pre-flop. (In fact, I made a post about it yesterday. 'JJ facing a nuisance raiser'.) But the situation here is very different. A raise to ~100 or a call pre-flop would have been much better, IMO.

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BTW I don't think that the line is completely off, but I still think that a flop bet is the best way to determine where you stand.

[/ QUOTE ]

See that's the problem with his huge pre-flop raise. There was not significant money in the pot at that point, so all he did is create a huge pot (if called) that is difficult to play in the (common) event that overs fall.

After his raise, he was down to t615 with, significantly, two callers. The pot size was already t565 at that point. Any real C-bet is going to take a very large chunk of his remaining stack, and to me, with two callers of the huge PF raise, it's too likely that one of them checked an ace.

As the hand played out, I like the way he played it post flop. But again, I don't see the point of such a huge raise pre-flop. There are times when I'll push JJ pre-flop. (In fact, I made a post about it yesterday. 'JJ facing a nuisance raiser'.) But the situation here is very different. A raise to ~100 or a call pre-flop would have been much better, IMO.

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AHHHH that does make alot more sense. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Well I still learning to.

Jacks get me into trouble so often at the 11's that I'm beginning to think that limping and playing for set value is the safest, most trouble free way to play in this situation.

I, too, have made the common mistake of building a big pot by raising too much PF. Jacks just aren't strong enough to do this at the 11's with these monkeys calling 4-5x BB raises w/A-6o.

Each time you think about hammering a bunch of limpers PF with your Jacks, repeat to yourself, "Overs are coming more than half the time on the flop and one or more of these goons are gonna have one." Who wants to be stuck in this situation? Not me. I learned my lesson. And I'm pretty sure that 45suited up above here is the one who taught me.

[45suited]

Don't get me wrong. JJ is a great hand. I think that there are times that I play them much stronger than a lot of players.

Say it's level 3, UTG mini-raises, gets a call, and I'm on the button with JJ. My chip stack is 1000. Insta push for me. Often when other people say, 'call and see a flop', I have no problem pushing JJ. It is a very strong hand.

I just don't agree with massively raising with it on level one just to pick up a tiny amount of chips, like the OP did in this case.

No, no misunderstanding. I love to look down and see Jacks level 3 and later. Just saying you helped me understand why I shouldn't be building a big pot with them early in a full ring. For me, there's far better spots than this to be risking a large percentage of my stack.