Progress In Iraq Continues...

[MMMMMM]

[ QUOTE ]
So what your "simple" poitical position is based upon is a very persoanl and likely nuanced position as to what is "your damned buisness".

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all. The injunction to "mind your own business" cannot be automatically construed so broadly as to mean you should take no action if you see a woman being beaten and raped in Central Park.

[vulturesrow]

This diary farming you speak of sounds interesting...how do I get into this field. My apologies but I couldnt resist. Yes, I know am lame.

[tolbiny]

"The typical Wisconsin dairy farmer, or New Hampshire pig farmer, typically would recognize the nonsense in such views"

This is crap imo- the typical american farmer rejects these views not because he/she understands their fallicies but because they are different fromt heir world view- the fact that they happen to be correct at times is mere chance. These same free market supporters have voted out any representative who has tried to cut farm subsidies in america for decades. They don't care about true market capitalism, they care about their lives being easier, and being confident in their world view.
Ask any of your average farmers who was worse for Cuba- Castro or the guy before Castro. Will any of them know about the guy before, or why conditions were so ripe for any kind of revolution in Cuba? Castro bad- what a great example of being right, so we should just killl Castro and everything will be better, no?

[MMMMMM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


What would be an example of a simple and plain political view?


[/ QUOTE ]



That everyone should mind their own damn business.

[/ QUOTE ]




How is this better than other political views? Its at least as niave as communisum- with perhaps less opportunity for curruption- perhaps.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's better than everyone telling trying to tell everyone else what THEY should or must do based merely on personal preference.

If you're doing something I don't like but which harms no one else--such as doing drugs, or acting rude to others in public--it's not my business to try to force you to stop. Likewise the religious right should not be trying to stop you from buying alcohol on Sundays.

That is different than doing something about a vicious attack you might chance to see occurring. In the later case case someone or someone(s) are doing much more than something you merely don't like--they are actively transgressing against another's most basic rights and person. In that case you have the right (and possibly the moral obligation) to intercede.

[MMMMMM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"The typical Wisconsin dairy farmer, or New Hampshire pig farmer, typically would recognize the nonsense in such views"

[/ QUOTE ]

This is crap imo- the typical american farmer rejects these views not because he/she understands their fallicies but because they are different fromt heir world view- the fact that they happen to be correct at times is mere chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

They might not know *why* it's nonsense--but they still recognize it as nonsense nonetheless--and they are right. In fact some things which should be *intuitively* obvious are indeed recognized as such by pig farmers but not by some of the liberal educated elite. So in essence sometimes some of the so-called "smarter" are actually "dumber" when it comes to reaching certain types of conclusions.

[DVaut1]

[ QUOTE ]
This diary farming you speak of sounds interesting...how do I get into this field.

[/ QUOTE ]

It used to be a great industry, before all the corporations stepped in, and ruined the small diary farmers - you know, those big city Hallmark types. One of the real shames of modern America. Where have all the small diary farmers gone? This is a Willie Nelson song just waiting to happen.

[tolbiny]

Coming up with one random situation does not make your position unnuanced- what is an acceptable response- or if more than one is acceptable which is the most acceptable response

you see a woman being attacked in the park
1. continue wlaking, its none of your damn buisness
2. yell and shout, hoping that this will deter the attacker, while safely keeping yourself out of harms way
3. run towards the attacker yelling and shouting with the intention of stopping and running away if this doesn't have a desired effect
4. run at the attacker shouting with the intentiono f phsically assaulting him if you have to.
5. rush at the attacker as silently as possible so you gian the elment of surprise.

What if you recognized the woman being attacked as a monster who had drowned her children intentionally, gotton off, and had made crptic comments about the safety of her ramining kids.

A million what ifs-

What if instead of a stable toltalitarian regime there was an unstable civil war that spread to other countries and killed hundreds of thousands?

I've really enjoyed this thread; has a lot more content than most. Although I take issue with

[ QUOTE ]
educated liberal elite

[/ QUOTE ]

and how they're characterized as being the only educated polysci types. For every educated liberal elite with out of touch with reality views there is a just as vocal, just as educated and just as out of touch with reality conservative. No, I have no proof, and you can fault me for that, but seems to me I hear as many (or more) out of touch conservatives in the media as I do the others.

[tolbiny]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"The typical Wisconsin dairy farmer, or New Hampshire pig farmer, typically would recognize the nonsense in such views"

[/ QUOTE ]

This is crap imo- the typical american farmer rejects these views not because he/she understands their fallicies but because they are different fromt heir world view- the fact that they happen to be correct at times is mere chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

They might not know *why* it's nonsense--but they still recognize it as nonsense nonetheless--and they are right. In fact some things which should be *intuitively* obvious are indeed recognized as such by pig farmers but not by some of the liberal educated elite. So in essence sometimes some of the so-called "smarter" are actually "dumber" when it comes to reaching certain types of conclusions.

[/ QUOTE ]


Again i call BS - because they don't "know" that its nonsense- they just have an opinion on the matter, and by laws of probability they will be right in some of their opinions- you could easily ask questions that they would be completly wrong about- "did the US find weapons of mass distruction in Iraq?" - how many would get it right? Weighted questions are just that, weighted.

The problem i have with your position is that you are using examples against the "liberal academics" that have been pretty clearly debunked and using extreme examples, and then giving extra credit to an average joe for questions that don't take serious thought and thta you know his answers to. Ask your average joe- what is the best way to spread democracy and freedom and prevent more totalitarian regimes from cropping up? And then tell us his nice simple answer, cause we sure as hell could use it.

[MMMMMM]

" educated liberal elite"



[ QUOTE ]
and how they're characterized as being the only educated polysci types. For every educated liberal elite with out of touch with reality views there is a just as vocal, just as educated and just as out of touch with reality conservative. No, I have no proof, and you can fault me for that, but seems to me I hear as many (or more) out of touch conservatives in the media as I do the others.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe so but I'll bet there are fewer wacky farmers and so forth (politically speaking) than either wacky media liberals or wacky media conservatives.

My point is sort of that people who "just live their lives", or "grassroots America"--are just as likely or more likely to form good conclusions about political matters, than are those who are deeply involved in that stuff by way of profession or education. It's sort of like: the more complicated they make that stuff, the more room for bullshit there is.