Brand Spankin' New Glock 19

[djj6835]

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The fact that there are millions of unlicensed, barely traceable guns out there scares the crap out of me. I'm just doing something about it when I strap on and leave my house.

Are you?



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Whate scares a rational human being like me, is the fact that there are actually people who think that the way to reduce gun related deaths is to increase the number of guns on the streets.

The chances of you actually succesfully protecting yourself with a gun is much less than the chances of a horrible accident occurring. If you're being robbed/mugged you are much better off appearing defenseless to the attacker. If he sees you are armed then he won't think twice about harming you. All you are doing by carrying a gun is ensuring that the criminal will have to resort to violence.

You also can't say for certain how you will react emotionally to an attacker. Next thing you know we will have people pulling out their gun and shooting wildly in public at a purse snatcher.

[Peter666]

"Whate scares a rational human being like me,"...is that there are many irrational people out there. Hence the need for rational people to protect themselves with guns.

[djj6835]

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Hence the need for rational people to protect themselves with guns.

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The error in your thinking is that having a concealed weapon somehow protects you. It doesn't, it is a danger to you and everyone around you.

[Larimani]

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"Whate scares a rational human being like me,"...is that there are many irrational people out there.

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This is the exact reason why I don't think you should be able to buy a hand gun at your local mall.

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The chances of you actually succesfully protecting yourself with a gun is much less than the chances of a horrible accident occurring.

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Prove it.

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If you're being robbed/mugged you are much better off appearing defenseless to the attacker.

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If you feel like getting robbed/mugged, sure. I'd rather not. Have you ever been mugged? Robbed? I haven't, so this is all assumption. If someone's gonna whack me in the back of the head with a bat, nothing I can do is gonna do any good. However, if someone's gonna walk up to me with a knife (or gun) and demand my money, chances are pretty good I'd have noticed him coming, and would be suitably prepared. I'd venture that muggers usually avoid people who look like they'd be a handful, and eye contact goes a long way. Being aware of your surroundings is something that seems to come with carrying a concealed handgun.

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All you are doing by carrying a gun is ensuring that the criminal will have to resort to violence.

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And not carrying a gun ensures he'll just politely ask you for your money/valuables and leave?

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You also can't say for certain how you will react emotionally to an attacker. Next thing you know we will have people pulling out their gun and shooting wildly in public at a purse snatcher.

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You're absolutely right. I can't tell you how I'd react if I were ever faced with a situation where I actually had to draw and fire my weapon. I plan to be well trained enough, and knowledgable enough of the law to know what I can and can't do, and when I can or can't do it.

The purse snatcher comment is the comment of someone who doesn't know what else to say. Anyone who draws and fires at a purse snatcher has already broken numerous laws, though the actual wording of those laws depend on what state they reside in.

For me to be legally allowed to draw my gun, a lot has to occur. A purse snatching doesn't give me that right. A man walking up to me and demanding money doesn't give me that right. A man walking towards me with a knife doesn't even necessarily give me that right. Surprising?

For me to be legally allowed to fire it, even more has to occur. If you do some digging, you can find these laws as they apply in your state.

And if I don't abide these rules, I'm going to jail. And they know where to find me - remember, I have a permit for my weapon.

Lastly:

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Whate scares a rational human being like me, is the fact that there are actually people who think that the way to reduce gun related deaths is to increase the number of guns on the streets.

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Increase the number of guns, in the hands of trained, knowledgable individuals, remember? Not increase the number of guns on "the street." There are already more than enough (easily millions, but I don't know if there's any real data out there) unlicensed, illegal handguns on the "streets," many of which are in states that allow NO concealed carry whatsoever (New York, as one example).

What scares a rational human being like me is the fact that other rational human beings refuse to apply logic, and instead cling hard and fast to the idea that "guns are bad" and that "guns increase crime." In the wrong hands, they damn sure do. But otherwise? I don't know if there's unbiased data either way. You can dredge up the Brady initiative's information, and I can dredge up Lott's studies.

I'm quite liberal on a lot of things... but you can bet I'm gonna be spending a decent amount of money in gun stores before my Democrat bretheren get the House, the Senate and the White House again.

Edit:

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The error in your thinking is that having a concealed weapon somehow protects you. It doesn't, it is a danger to you and everyone around you.

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You really need to start providing some sort of proof with these accusations. You're making statements, without any data to back them up. That's bad science.

I could stand here and say having concealed handgun permits lower states' crime rates. I'm not, because I don't trust the data that's out there that says it. It's from relatively biased sources. But at least its data of any sort...

All you're doing is blowing smoke.

Go be rational and logical and actually prove something.

[djj6835]

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What scares a rational human being like me is the fact that other rational human beings refuse to apply logic, and instead cling hard and fast to the idea that "guns are bad" and that "guns increase crime." In the wrong hands, they damn sure do. But otherwise? I don't know if there's unbiased data either way. You can dredge up the Brady initiative's information, and I can dredge up Lott's studies.



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I'm not saying that they will increase crime, they will just increase the liklihood that a crime ends in violence.

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Prove it.


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In terms of an accident occurring being more likely than you protecting yourself with the gun. There are over 10 accidental gun deaths per 100000 people each year in the United States. You're going to make some comment about how you are well trained, but that doesn't mean the next guy is.

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And not carrying a gun ensures he'll just politely ask you for your money/valuables and leave?



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Yes. If the robber comes up to you and asks for your wallet then that's what they want. They didn't come up to you to kill you. You're better off not giving him a reason to resort to violence.

[djj6835]

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You really need to start providing some sort of proof with these accusations. You're making statements, without any data to back them up. That's bad science.

I could stand here and say having concealed handgun permits lower states' crime rates. I'm not, because I don't trust the data that's out there that says it. It's from relatively biased sources. But at least its data of any sort...

All you're doing is blowing smoke.

Go be rational and logical and actually prove something.



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It's called common sense. You can't have any data to map how people will react in certain situations. You can just use your common sense to determine that a criminal is more likely to become violent if they are given a reason to become violent.

If I'm being robbed by a person with a gun the last thing I want is some hero pulling out his concealed weapon and startling the robber. This is my evidence to support my claim. Your common sense is being blinded by whatever biased facts you have to support your claim that concealed weapons make us safer as a whole.

[djj6835]

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You're absolutely right. I can't tell you how I'd react if I were ever faced with a situation where I actually had to draw and fire my weapon. I plan to be well trained enough, and knowledgable enough of the law to know what I can and can't do, and when I can or can't do it.

The purse snatcher comment is the comment of someone who doesn't know what else to say. Anyone who draws and fires at a purse snatcher has already broken numerous laws, though the actual wording of those laws depend on what state they reside in.

For me to be legally allowed to draw my gun, a lot has to occur. A purse snatching doesn't give me that right. A man walking up to me and demanding money doesn't give me that right. A man walking towards me with a knife doesn't even necessarily give me that right. Surprising?

For me to be legally allowed to fire it, even more has to occur. If you do some digging, you can find these laws as they apply in your state.

And if I don't abide these rules, I'm going to jail. And they know where to find me - remember, I have a permit for my weapon.



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I understand that you are capable of being a responsible gun owner. I'm more concerned about the people that aren't. Just because you understand that you can't just go off firing your gun into public doesn't mean other people aren't going to do it.

Your basic argument is that this won't be a problem because there are laws against it and the irresponsible gun owner will go to jail. That doesn't do the innocent person who was just gunned down any good. We wouldn't need the law in the first place if people weren't allowed to carry concealed weapons.

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If I'm being robbed by a person with a gun the last thing I want is some hero pulling out his concealed weapon and startling the robber. This is my evidence to support my claim.

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We agree on this. Its not my responsibility to protect you, and your life isn't worth mine. Until he starts shooting, I probably wouldn't be inclined to intervene. This isn't a personal attack, and I hope its not taken that way.

In Texas, I have a right to use deadly force against another to protect a third person, if I believe that my intervention is necessary to protect said person's life (paraphrasing, but I think that's almost verbatim). I'm not obligated to do so. There's also a big difference between someone pointing a gun at you and demanding money, and someone actually intending to shoot you. Chances are, if you're not shot, you probably weren't gonna be.

If he shoots you, however, you can be damn sure he's getting two to the chest about as quickly as I can put them there, because he just became a real danger to me, and everyone around me.

My concealed weapon makes me safer. I've never said that it makes anyone else any safer. I don't know if I believe that concealed weapons

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I understand that you are capable of being a responsible gun owner.

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Thanks.

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I'm more concerned about the people that aren't. Just because you understand that you can't just go off firing your gun into public doesn't mean other people aren't going to do it.

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Someone with a license to legally carry his weapon in public has usually had some sort of training to go with it. There are some states that do not mandate it, but I believe the majority of those with "shall-issue" (meaning, you don't have to show any real solid reason for needing to carry a gun, above and beyond "self-defense") permits mandate safety training and familiarization with the applicable laws.

Again, I believe that the people with the licenses/permits to legally carry a concealed weapon are more likely to understand the laws relating to what they can and cannot do with their weapon, and to understand, above the law, what they SHOULD and SHOULD NOT do with their weapon.

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Your basic argument is that this won't be a problem because there are laws against it and the irresponsible gun owner will go to jail. That doesn't do the innocent person who was just gunned down any good.

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I have to wonder at the percentage of "intentional" (by that I mean a gun-death or gun-injury that's not classified as "accidental" or "negligent") un-justified shootings that are committed by people who have a license to carry a concealed weapon. I wonder how many innocent bystanders have been killed by someone with a CCW permit. I'm willing to bet that more often than not, even when you account for the # of people who are actually licensed to carry a concealed weapon, the "innocent bystander" is killed by someone who doesn't have a permit.

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We wouldn't need the law in the first place if people weren't allowed to carry concealed weapons.

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I've said it in an earlier posting, and I'll say it again. Its a horrible cliche, but it still rings true.

If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

If you make carrying a concealed handgun illegal, the only people who will have concealed handguns will be, by definition, criminals. And most law-abiding citizens won't be willing to break the law to protect themselves. So, only people with little to nothing left to lose will carry weapons - and these people don't care that its illegal.

There are already too many guns on "the streets," as you put it, to make it illegal for a law-abiding citizen to carry his (or her) own. The criminals aren't giving up their guns. I'm not giving up mine.

i have a glock .40, a sig p226 .40, a benelli M4 pistolgrip semi-auto shotgun, a bushmaster BAR10 .308, and a bushmaster pistol 223.

and i have lasers, $1000 scopes, ammo cans, etc.

a concealed carry permit.

card carrying gun nut. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]