How Much Would I Have To Make?

[GuyOnTilt]

How much you have saved up right now is a pretty big factor. Just as a ballpark figure I guess I'd say something like $200k.

GoT

[Ulysses]

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I think that this number has to be really high like >300k. Taking two years off will basically make you unemployable by most consulting and finance firms in the city, and make in very difficult to get into a decend b school if that was in your future.

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First off, there's a big difference between one year and two. I was left w/ the impression that either of these might be the case w/ this decision.

If he takes a year off and travels and perhaps does some socially conscious stuff (ie: volunteering) while playing poker for a living, that combination might actually make him a more attractive candidate for employment or school.

"After school I took a year off and travelled, including a lot of travel to multiple developing nations where I volunteered in open election efforts and housing initiatives. During that year, I used poker as a means to finance these travels and volunteering by first becoming an expert level poker player through study and analysis."

Not saying that's the exact thing I'm suggesting, but something like that would go over quite well in many situations.

[Ulysses]

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However, you are talking about taking a year (or maybe two) after school. People do all sorts of stuff (travel, f around with a "fun" job, etc.) between school and starting their "real" life (whatever that means). You just need to make enough money such that you won't be strapped at the end of the year (or two) and can then make a good decision wrt finding a job, getting more schooling, etc. For your age, 200k seems plenty for that, even in NYC.

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This is a more succinct statement of what I said above. By your standard ("just need to make enough money such that you won't be strapped at the end of the year (or two)"), and even though NY is very expensive, I think the number is much lower. With no college loans to repay, sthief could easily make do with half that $200K amount (post-grads get by here with much less than that).

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This is why I think people who are tossing out numbers like $300-500k are really off base. Many people go travel and wait tables or work as ski instructors or do all sorts of crap like that for some relatively short period after college. Then they join the real world focusing on what they want to do longer-term as a career. The ones who are smart and were well-qualified to come out of school into that career are just as qualified a year later. It's not like finance/management consultants use much of anything you learn in undergrad (beyond reasoning/analysis abilities, which hopefully you won't lose in a year). 200k is plenty to be in much better shape than everyone else who didn't jump straight into the work force, and you'll probably be better off financially that most who did jump into the work force. As colgin said, much less is probably very fine as well.

[Stack]

Go to Grad School. Give yourself more time to know what makes you happy, and what you want from life without handicapping any of your options at this early stage.

In Grad School you still have plenty of time to play while getting even more equipped for both careers: Professional consultant in your field, or poker. I'm not saying that you're too young (I actually think from your posts that you are much more mature that most people your age), but I want to point out that in a couple of years you'll know yourself much, much better. You may even not have to post this question in a thread on 2+2.

Make sure you keep us posted though.

Good luck at whatever you do. I'm sure you'll be successful anyway. Make sure you are also happy.

[Ulysses]

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Go to Grad School. Give yourself more time to know what makes you happy, and what you want from life without handicapping any of your options at this early stage.

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I just don't understand this idea that he will "handicap his options" by taking a year off before deciding whether to get a job or continue with schooling. In fact, I think many people who go straight to grad school from undergrad would be better served to take some time away from school before deciding to enter graduate school.

[lastcoyote]

OK, you wanted numbers. Obviously the chart below is a bit crude and based upon a lot of impossible assumptions. However, I think you need deal with some hard numbers to get a clear look at the dilemma. Starting out your adult life with some serious jack in the bank is a huge deal if you can have the discipline to save for the future and retirement.

For the sake of argument I'm going to assume you screw your career a bit by not going right into the job market. I'm also assuming that you have a steadily rising trajectory to your non-poker career and that you are able to put away money for retirement at an increasing rate. Note that your assumed increase in professional success (by not playing poker) allows you to put more away every year for retirement/future. I'm assuming you can make 8% year after year on your retirement fund.

The biggest assumption is that you can put $100K (after taxes, of course) each of the next two years. Adjust this how you will but I think that's conservative given your abilities.

Given those assumptions I think you are leaving a lot of money on the table if you don't play poker now.



I think one thing that is important about this is that you really are doing this to solidify your future. You probably can go into business and be hugely successful. You never know though. Something may happen to get your career sidetracked and things may not work out the way you expect professionally. I would say the next two years playing poker are probably the closest you are going to get to guaranteeing yourself a comfortable retirement.

The last thing I want to say is that you mentioned the other day that you are here on these boards all the time because you like to "help people". Maybe that is something you should think about as you choose a career.

[Stack]

My post was initially too long, but I shortened it. Grad school is "time off" compared to work. He can go and travel after grad school before getting a job if he feels that he needs that. He has time to take many short trips during grad school also.

I do underestand your point that not working for a year is not handicapping your professional career. I do not disagree. But grad school "helps" your professional career. He can either go now or later...whatever.

My main point to Sthief: If you need to ask "How much whould I have to make to play poker professionally", then you don't know yourself enough. Just give yourself more time. Grad school is a good way because you interact with the types of people you will be working with later if you choose to. Travel is also a good way because you have more time to think about yourself and your future while seeing the world and having a blast. You can do any of these in any order you want, or do just one. You can work part-time and study... I mean, don't make these seperate categories, like, "either I go to work, or I play poker". Do not make the decision now, because you're not ready, hence your post.

Do what you have to do to know yourself better. What ever you do, work on your confidence. Focus on it during the next two years (for example).

[sam h]

I don't think taking a year off is that big of a deal. You are fortunate to be part of generation and, I assume, a social class, for whom it is pretty normal in one's 20 (and maybe later) to switch jobs a bunch of times, spend a bunch of time unemployed and screwing around, travel for a while, etc. Maybe I have a selective sample (ok, make that definitely) but hardly anybody I know has a resume listing uninterrupted employment since graduation. If it impinges upon your relationship with your family, that might be different. You can't put a price on that. But you could at least see how things go with poker.

As you progress through your twenties, it will also become increasingly clear to you that a few hundred thousand dollars is a very useful thing to have. I'm not saying you don't realize this now, because I'm sure you do. But when your friends start buying apartments, your soon-to-be-wife starts talking about having kids someday, and you begin to just want nicer things, then this money will come in even handier than you probably imagine right now.

That said, the big question is not how much money do you need to make but how much money can you make. I'm sure you know that too. My only advice on that point is that it is not easy to go from playing 5-7 hours a week to getting in 20-30 hours a week on a consistent basis. Make your decision based on the lower bound of the range of hours per week you think feasible.

[sublime]

josh-

your dad sounds like a smart, business orientated man. if his reaction is one of your main concerns (because it sounds like you want to play poker) then you should take some time and develop a report of sorts to present to him showing how much money you can/will make and most importantly how you plan to invest it (or if you are going to pay them back a certain % of college cost etc). tell him you will maintain certain hours (and will inform him of everything that is going on) and volunteer for the year to do something that interests you (cleaning the stalls at a whackoff shop perhaps?) if he still gives you grief, then that is his baggage and not yours. we dont live our lives to please others (even family members). as for the girlfriends family, they dont need to know as much as your dad and i doubt your girlfriend is going to let their complaints (if any) interfere with your relationship.

good luck

[Greg J]

Are you stuck on the idea of going to grad school at Columbia, or are you willing to go somewhere else?

As an initial thought: a lot of people take a year off from college to "find themselves" -- so much it's totally cliche, but believable. If you are qualified and confident, it might not hurt you that much in getting a job later. Plus, you might could also take a year off then to get yr master's. Perhaps yr options are not as limited as they seem. Yr young, smart, financially secure (I assume), well educated, and I'm sure if you sat down and thought about it more you would see that you have many more options than just what you listed.

Stuff like:
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should I get an internship or a part-time job at a company that I'd be interested in working for?

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that could be helpful to you. That could help yr resume/CV a lot when getting a job later. I bet there are more options like this you have not yet considered. You really do have a lot going for you in life!

As far as yr parents and future in laws go, I hesitate to give advise. But most responsible and reasonable adults are willing to give a lot of slack to young people doing things they don't necessarily agree with, but won't hold it against you too much because you are young. They may not approve, but it might not do any long term damage to yr relationship with them. Only you could say this for sure, obviously. But approval does not equal love. If they love you then they will love you regardless of whether you played poker for a year.

Whatever you decide, good luck. Seriously -- the advise and contributions you have made here has been great. (Plus I remember you helped me a LOT when I was a total newb.) I wish you nothing but the best man!

Greg