An interesting 80-160 hand

[golferbrent]

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This was a very interesting hand that I witnessed in the 80-160 game at Bay 101 tonight. I had just gotten there, but judging by the cast of characters, it was clear this game was unhinged.

It's 10 handed and folded to Degenerate Gambler, who limps in MP. On his left is Peter, who is a very tricky, thinking player. Many people think Peter is very live, and he does play too many hands, but he is one of the best card readers that I've ever seen, and will apply lots of pressure on all streets. He changes gears with the best of them, and it's not always pedal to the metal. Anyway, he limps, too. The button (terrible) limps. The SB (bad local high limit player) completes. The BB is Henry, a thinking prop. He raises with AcAd.

DG now springs to life. He's been losing his a$$ and has been going all in every hand, but he tripled up recently and now has some chips. He 3 bets. Peter calls. Button calls. SB folds. Henry caps it. DG, Peter, and Button all call. 4 players see the flop.

Flop: 8h 6h 3h. Henry bets out. DG raises. Peter 3 bets. Button folds. Henry looks sick and calls. DG calls.

Turn: Tc. Henry checks. DG springs to life again and bets. Peter raises. Henry goes into the tank for about 45 seconds and finally calls. DG calls, leaving him with 7 chips left.

River: 2c. Henry checks, DG goes all-in for his last 7 chips. Due to the rules at Bay 101, Peter's options are to call, fold, or complete for 1 more chip. He mucks. Henry calls.

Comments on all streets welcome. How would you have played it if you were Henry? How about if you were Peter? What did DG have?

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This is a very interesting hand. I believe that the action got complicated for the hero (Henry) b/c of the way that he played his hand early. I don't know how often Peter and Henry play together, but from reading the thread... it sounds like they play together a fair amount.

I believe that Peter makes the play that he makes on the turn b/c he has a flush/st8 draw with a pair type of hand. I would put him on something like 8-9 with the nine of hearts. With Peter ascribing to the theory of doing whatever it takes to win a big pot and the way the flop play played out with Henry just calling the 2 cold on the flop. He has incorrectly misread Henry's hand as A-K with one of them being a heart.

On the turn Peter is putting Henry to the test to get him to lay down his bare heart draw b/c if figures that there is a decent chance he is ahead of the DG, but if he isn't he wants to clear up some outs. Peter, knowing Henry as he does, thinks that he could get Henry to lay down the bare draw for 2 bets cold on the turn. When Henry, makes the call on the turn now Peter correctly realizes that Henry has a hand and now he has to improve on the end inorder to win against the DG, thus the result on the river of him folding for 7 chips instead of calling is indication that he knows Henry will overcall and he knows he cannot beat Henrys hand since he did not improve on the river.

In summation: Henry has complicated the hand by his play of his hand on the flop. He makes it appear as though he may have A-K with a heart or he has a big hand, but with no heart. Peter reading Henry's check on the turn as an indication of the fact that he doesn't have a big hand w/o a heart b/c he chose not to bet the non-heart turn.

Peter is thinking that Henry is thinking that if Henry had lets say A-A with no heart as he does... and just chose to play a stop-n-go on the flop, he would have led at the non-heart turn, but since he did not lead at the non-heart turn... Henry is now portraying to Peter that he has A-K with a heart and now Peter is making a play at the pot on the turn. I think Peter played the hand optimally for the perceived messages that Henry is sending to the field.

Henry I believe has played the hand terribly b/c he has allowed himself to be put to all the tough decisions in the hand. I like his play preflop and I don't mind his cold-call on the flop, if he has the intention of leading a non-heart turn card. He also could of easily capped the flop and lead a non-heart turn as well. The stop-n-go as a play here seems valid.

However, he creates his problems by CC'ing the flop and checking the turn, which implies he doesnt have a big hand and now Peter makes a play to clean up his outs if Henry has a heart in his hand and no pair. Henry needs to lead the turn and then he would of had to make no difficult decisions here.

[golferbrent]

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"We are concerned about defining his hand because what his hand is makes a difference as to whether we win the money in the pot or not."

Don't mean to be mean, but this is silly. Henry is going to showdown no matter what so how the other players "define his hand" is unimportant. Furthermore, as other posters have mentioned, the hand was defined on the flop (DG doesn't care what Henry has and Peter knows he probably has a huge pair).

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I actually disagree with the fact that Henry has defined his hand. Sure he capped preflop, but there is the rare occasion the he could cap vs. this field with A-K and how he has played the flop and initially the turn, he portrays his hand as A-K with a heart, not what it is actually (A-A) no heart.

If Henry had led at the turn then he would of properly defined the nature of his hand and then Peter would not of made a play at the pot. Therefore, I believe that Henry has confused his opponents, which is a good thing, except when it results in them playing in a manner which makes your own decisions more difficult.

[siegfriedandroy]

good response

[J.A.Sucker]

My point is simple. In big pots, aggressive players can make things easier or more difficult for you. Usually they make it difficult for you. Here he does the opposite.

The time to go limp is headsup with these guys. I think it's really hard to give too much action in huge multiway pots.

[haakee]

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I think it's really hard to give too much action in huge multiway pots.

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I almost always adhere to this logic. I just think other factors (presence of nearly-all-in donk) are at play here that make me favor Henry's actions on this hand.