NL Preflop Question - Page 9

#81 08-15-2005, 03:36 PM

I say call. Here's why:

If I call and I'm in the BB I can see the flop. If it looks favorable for me, I can push. If it looks unfavorable for AK, I can push and possibly get him off of his hand. If it looks unfavorable I can fold. The description says the player is tight, so he might fold if the flop looks unfavorable.

If I push before the flop and he calls, he gets a guranteed showdown, two extra cards to beat me. If I see the flop and I don't like it, I'm out only $80.

valenzuela · #82 08-15-2005, 04:17 PM

I thought ure result were wrong because of not putting the SB..I think ure results are wrong because u dont have the frequency u ran into the cards correctly. Of course I may be wrong instead of you but Im confident that calling is better.

donny5k · #83 08-15-2005, 05:21 PM

How come half the responses are "hey maybe he'll fold AK to a push" or "I put him on this" when all of these considerations are predetermined in the statement of the problem? Can half the people in this forum not read?

BluffTHIS! · #84 08-15-2005, 06:24 PM

David,

As a diversion from our usual discussions, I thought I would post a response, though I never post here even though I do read since I don't play many tournaments.

I think the correct answer generally would be fold. However a viable answer also has to be call, hesitate slightly, and push the flop no matter what comes, i.e a stop 'n go. Since he is a tight player you should have folding equity on the flop if he won't call allin w/AK that doesn't improve, or even TT/JJ/QQ if a K comes. The only exception is if an A comes on the flop in which case you would check/call his push or checkraise him allin to beat his underpair and make up for the times he dominates you with AK on an ace flop.

donny5k · #85 08-16-2005, 03:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If you call he will always move in 200 on the flop and call if you move in.

[/ QUOTE ]

David Sklansky · #86 08-16-2005, 04:17 AM

He does the same thing on the religion threads.

BluffTHIS! · #87 08-16-2005, 05:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you call he will always move in 200 on the flop and call if you move in.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't miss that part. I just don't believe the description of the player as tight would justify that part of the stated terms of the situation.

donny5k · #88 08-16-2005, 06:38 AM

So you're disagreeing with the assumptions of the problem? Isn't that why they are called assumptions?

BluffTHIS! · #89 08-16-2005, 06:48 AM

Yea, just like I do with David's stated assumptions in his religion threads. He's used to it and I wouldn't want to disappoint him. And if you are not going to think outside the box on this one, then it is only a math problem in figuring allin prices. The key here is that you are taking the position of the blind and thus have the ability to bet first with a stop 'n go. If the opponent really were tight as stated, he wouldn't call the other 2/3 of his stack off in a tourney or cash game with AK that doesn't improve unless he had strong reason to believe you were making a move.

donny5k · #90 08-16-2005, 06:55 AM

Absurdity of disagreeing with assumptions aside, there are plenty of players that can be labeled tight who will not fold AK unimproved if they put a lot of their chips in already. He's getting 2 to 1, and if both his overcards are live he'll win just under 1/3 of the time. This should be good enough for someone with only 200 left. The idea is his 100 chip raise acts as an allin without actually pushing. And the problem is whether you can take advantage of such a strategy with a hand as weak as AQo.