Mass defection from the AFL-CIO

[bobman0330]

I think anyone will concede that in certain situations, a union can really improve the worker's lot.

However, a better model than the rapacious employer and unionized employees is an employer who has a brain (or who gets advice from someone with a brain) and treats his employees well enough that a union doesn't come in.

-A union in a big plant will walk about with as much as a quarter of a million dollars in dues per year. And as Hamish noted, every penny of that comes out of the employee's pocket.
-A nonunion employer has the flexibility to introduce programs that are good for both sides (e.g., profit-sharing, drug testing). A union employer has to negotiate it all, and is encouraged to keep compensation minimal because they can't adjust in lean times.
-Strikes. Fines for crossing picket lines. Permanent replacements. What's more, the union's often willing to strike for things the employees would never go to the mat for (DUES CHECKOFF!), and these days, unions just don't win strikes.
-Unionized plants are more likely to close down due to the earlier-discussed higher wages and lower profitability. Even if they stay in business, it's often only through decreased wages (plus the $250,000 in dues money).

People like Hamish are important to have around to keep employers acting fairly, but given the choice between a union and a responsible employer, there's no question that an employee prefers the latter.

Also, I'd be cautious about accepting Hamish's lofty moral rhetoric. A union isn't the Red Cross. Unions are big business. Federal law requires all unions to disclose their annual finances, and the numbers are just staggering. The Teamsters bring in almost $200 million dollars, half of which goes to union salaries, and another 20% or so goes to cash reserves. Any honest company would kill for that kind of profit margin.

[FishHooks]

You should read this guy's post history, its funny, just small little ignorant comments like this with nothing to back them up.

[superleeds]

Yeah, you know what your right. Your arguments have totally convinced me. Thank you. Good day.

[slamdunkpro]

Let’s make a list of some of the companies that collapsed under the weight of union demands / wages / pension funds:

US Steel
Bethlehem Steel (chapter 11 – reorganized – got concessions & survived)
Colt Firearms
Binion’s Horseshoe
PAN AM
Eastern Airlines
Brannif
Chrysler (chapter 11 – reorganized – got concessions & survived)
Roadway Express (chapter 11 – reorganized – got concessions & survived)

Companies that are on the verge of collapsing from the above
GM
Ford
United Airlines

Companies that were in trouble and were saved by unionizing
???

[superleeds]

All because of unreasonable demands by unions? Nothing to do with any incompetence on the side of management? Or too many fish in too small a pool?

Is it really so simple in your world.

[FishHooks]

Hey man answer the question and that would be great.

[slamdunkpro]

[ QUOTE ]
All because of unreasonable demands by unions?

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say unreasonable - I said “collapsed under the weight of union demands / wages / pension funds:”

When the US steel industry collapsed union labor was 78% of their production costs. The industry couldn’t afford to modernize or lower prices to compete with foreign steel tariffs and price supports. The auto industry crisis accelerated the process. But back on point the Steel companies went to the union for help and they were refused out of hand. They then closed.

[ QUOTE ]
Is it really so simple in your world.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes the truth is simple.

[adios]

[ QUOTE ]
Target is doing ok but isn't close to wal Mart, I have 1 target and about 4 wal-marts in a 20 mile radius and the parking lots in wal-mart are always filled, target, not so much. Go Wally world

[/ QUOTE ]

I stated that TGT is doing well and didn't say it was doing as well as WMT. Actually TGT is growing revenue slightly faster than WMT. TGT has sales of slighty in excess of $51 billion while WMT has sales of around $77 billion. Both mega retailing corporations that are doing well.

[FishHooks]

[ QUOTE ]
I stated that TGT is doing well and didn't say it was doing as well as WMT. Actually TGT is growing revenue slightly faster than WMT. TGT has sales of slighty in excess of $51 billion while WMT has sales of around $77 billion. Both mega retailing corporations that are doing well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just curious can you post a link where you found those numbers from what I've read in 2004 Wal-Mart had sales of 83 billion dollars.

[adios]

Actually we're both wrong. I was looking at a 1Q stat. Actually it's closer to $300 billion. So yeah WMT is much bigger but $50 billion in revenue isn't too bad either.

Target Stats

Walmart Stats