Is live 2/4 hold 'em really -EV?

[MicroBob]

too hard? perhaps. but he's not a good player and seems determined to just use some weird logic that the 'players are so bad you can't beat them' to continue to himself that he's actually a good player.


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you'll understand what I'm talking about.

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you gave a typical bad-beat type story that happens to me several times a day/week. In fact, it happens to everyone.
when something like that happens to me i'll know what you're talking about?
the assumption that these types of things don't happen EVERYWHERE and to EVERYONE is a pretty bad one.



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cannot beat this game, and I'm not a bad player.

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poster really needs to think hard about this.
can't beat the very worst players in existence.....yet he is not a bad player??



perhaps I get too tough sometimes. but the assumptions and ideas in this post are just ridiculous (note....NOT spelled 'rediculous')

[Bigdaddydvo]

Bob, you can at least take personal comfort from many of these posts e.g. "you'll know what I'm talking about" in knowing that your livelihood is in absolutely no danger for the foreseeable future.

[MicroBob]

yes. there is truth in what you say.
it would be +EV for me to let the losers continue to believe they are winners (which I always do at the tables of course...but not on 2+2 for some reason)


I think you make some good observations dude.
unfortunately, any value you add to the forums is sometimes lost on me because your avatar is freaking me out!!!

[Bigdaddydvo]

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I think you make some good observations dude.
unfortunately, any value you add to the forums is sometimes lost on me because your avatar is freaking me out!!!


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The Star Wars Kid is +EV.

It's probably the best avatar I've had since all my MST3K ones (like Torgo) have run their course.

[Jibbs]

2/4 is definitely beatable. The rake takes a bigger chunk then you would like but the players are horrible. You won't get rich but you can spend some time and make a little spending money.

An example of how bad the players are. I saw a guy with pocket 2's call a board of 83483. The only hand he could even split with is the other pair of 2's!!!

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I assume we're talking limit 2/4; specifically structured limit, where bets and raises are made in increments of $2/$4 until capped.

If that's the case, then what am I missing? I don't play 2/4, but I play 5/10 in Joliet, IL (lowest limits available in my area, so I assume the players are of the same caliber), and aside from the occasional rush of great cards and great pots, cannot beat this game, and I'm not a bad player. If you can't understand why preflop raises are meaningless in this game, you evidently have never sat down with the WPT wanna-bes and little old grannies that play ATC. . . and suck out endlessly on your premium holdings. You will never lose so often with top pair, top two pair, or sets as in this game. Go ahead, raise preflop with your AA, KK, AQ suited, 10-10. . . whatever you think warrants it. If the idea is to build the pot, great. . . hope you take it down. But if the idea is to thin the field, forget it. If you raise in late position, everyone who has already limped in will call the additional bet (why shouldn't they). Even if you catch a monster in early position and are able to raise the blinds immediately, these people STILL call. When you raise UTG preflop with KK, bet out on a flop of K68, get called around, and end up losing to 10-7o when the 9 hits the turn (yes, a personal bad beat story from this game--sorry), you'll understand what I'm talking about.

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I am going to attempt to answer this based on what I have learned in this very thread.

The fact is that if people are calling your preflop raises with garbage when you have a premium holding benefits you in the long run, even if it results in some short term pain.

The reason this is the case is because it means that, while you may lose on those hands where their garbage manages to hit something, it also means that when they DON'T hit their hand, the pots you do win will have more money in them. And seeing as how the odds of winning with a premium preflop holding are better than the odds of winning with garbage (hence the descriptors), you will, over the long run, wind up winning more often than they will.

For example, in the hand you just mentioned, when you have KK and he has T7o and the flop comes K68, you will win 85% of the time.