Sox Bullpen Questions

[DougOzzzz]

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Timmy ain't a closer. Maaaaaaaybe Arroyo. It is SO time to stop the bleeding.

FCuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuk

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Why the [censored] does everybody in Boston want to move Arroyo into the pen?

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Options:

Arroyo: Pitches well 1st inning of the game. Has a big platoon split (sucks vs lefties, dominates righties).
Wells: His value is in innings-eating. Definately not the type to be more effective in 1 inning situations.
Wakefield: Does seem to do well early in the game. Moving him to the pen would break up the Mirabelli/Wakefield partnership - something that neither player will like.
Clement: Starts off very strong. He'd likely be a great closer. He's also been their best starter.
Miller: Starts off slow and then gradually gets better (common for pitchers coming back from injury). Not a good pattern for a reliever.

This is essentially stolen from a recent e-mail (20 mins ago) to the Bosox mailing list. He posted the stats though, to back it up (1st inning, 1st 3 innings, AVG/OBA/SLG by pitch count, etc).

So who do you move to the pen instead of Arroyo?

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Timmy ain't a closer. Maaaaaaaybe Arroyo. It is SO time to stop the bleeding.

FCuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuk

[/ QUOTE ]

Why the [censored] does everybody in Boston want to move Arroyo into the pen?

[/ QUOTE ]
Options:

Arroyo: Pitches well 1st inning of the game. Has a big platoon split (sucks vs lefties, dominates righties).
Wells: His value is in innings-eating. Definately not the type to be more effective in 1 inning situations.
Wakefield: Does seem to do well early in the game. Moving him to the pen would break up the Mirabelli/Wakefield partnership - something that neither player will like.
Clement: Starts off very strong. He'd likely be a great closer. He's also been their best starter.
Miller: Starts off slow and then gradually gets better (common for pitchers coming back from injury). Not a good pattern for a reliever.

This is essentially stolen from a recent e-mail (20 mins ago) to the Bosox mailing list. He posted the stats though, to back it up (1st inning, 1st 3 innings, AVG/OBA/SLG by pitch count, etc).

So who do you move to the pen instead of Arroyo?

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some key points regarding miller and wells. they get paid per start basically nullifying any chance they go to the pen.

miller look awesome after the first last night.

if it wasn't for the mirrabelli issue, i think wakefield would be the one to go, although non statistical considerations have to be taken into account also. tito obviously is a players manager and moving wakefield to the pen would not bode well for his attitude (hated being bounced around in the williams tenure)

let us not forget that out of our 6 starters (when schill comes back) one is already hurt (wells) and another is still on the comeback trail from a serious injury (miller) and the other is essentially starting his season over.

[Toro]

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of course they wont. they understand that 100 innings of quality pitching is much more important than 40 innings of quality pitching.

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This statement is true only in a vacuum. The strength of the staff is starting right now and the glaring weakness closing. Outside help is hard to find. Move one of your surplus starters into the role. Who's the hardest thrower(he was clocked last night at 96), Schilling.

He's also best suited to handle the pressure. If Bellicheck were coaching the team, he would do it. Troy Brown as a defensive Back? Reactionary and silly.

[sublime]

This statement is true only in a vacuum.

how so? assuming he comes back with 75 games remaining there are roughly 675 innings left in the year and if schilling were to become the closer he would pitch roughly 40 innings. if he starts 15 games averages 7 innings a game he pitches 105 innings.

so in your scenario, we have a pitcher who A) hasn't pitched out of the bullpen (besides one game in 02) since 1992 B) has pitched at an elite level in his original capacity for 11 seasons C) pitching in 6% of the remaining innings

even if you factor in the high leverage factor it wont be close. there is a reason starters make a LOT more money than closers. they mean more to the team.

in my scenario, he pitches in his accustomed position and doesn't have to recondition his arm to pitch a small amount regularly instead of a large amount followed by a long rest and pitches in 15.5% of the remaining innings.

it doesn't make any sense to make a move like that, especially mid season.

He's also best suited to handle the pressure. If Bellicheck were coaching the team, he would do it. Troy Brown as a defensive Back? Reactionary and silly

troy brown was the 4th receiver, not randy moss.

[SocialWelfareIV]

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There really aren't many options for Francona now. I mean, none of the choices are good. Timlin would be the 4th or 5th option out of the pen for many other teams, yet he's been the best so far for the Sox. Everyone else has been terrible, except Myers who only pitches against lefties.


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This is really the heart of the issue. Embree's struggles, in particular, have hurt the time just as much as Foulke (Embree's given up some game-winning homers, too). Coming into the year, the team was supposed to have 4 relievers that could handle the late innings in Foulke, Timlin, Embree, and Mantei (Mantei of course was a wild card). Three of those guys have been worthless and the other's been pretty decent. Halama has been worthless (I actually liked seeing him in the game last night, though. If you can't use the guy to get an out or two here and there, you've got to get rid of him). So getting one guy won't fix that mess -- even when Arroyo goes to the pen, you need at least one more quality guy and preferably two.

I'm a big fan of calling up some of the minor leaguers, sooner rather than later. I'd give Meredith another chance; I'd like to see what Papelbon can do. There's a decent amount of pitching talent there in the minors. Throw it at the wall, and see what sticks. It seems like it might be time for Foulke to head to the DL, and giving up Halama would be no big loss.

Also, what about this: does anyone think the Sox could get anything for Wells or Miller? They'll be eligible to trade them pretty soon and I think you might be able to turn them around for something decent. Especially Miller. He's relatively young and cheap, and has a pretty high ceiling. That's the case for not trading him, but if you get some talent that can help you win now (read: decent relievers), this kind of a move might be viable.

[Toro]

Blowing games late will do more to ruin the psyche of a team than any other single thing. The Sox go no where if they don't solve this problem. The greater number of quality innings Schilling can provide as a starter is a moot point. Since the Sox appear to have enough pitching in the starting rotation to get them to the end of games, the last inning or innings are weighted with far more importance.

[sublime]

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Blowing games late will do more to ruin the psyche of a team than any other single thing. The Sox go no where if they don't solve this problem. The greater number of quality innings Schilling can provide as a starter is a moot point. Since the Sox appear to have enough pitching in the starting rotation to get them to the end of games, the last inning or innings are weighted with far more importance.

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ok, then why not make clement the closer?

[Voltron87]

please do this. i would love it.

[sublime]

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please do this. i would love it.

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hahaha, it would be akin to mo being made a starter to help out.

[Voltron87]

Or Sturtze starting for us. Imagine how desperate we would have to be for sturtze to be starting.