150/300 bellagio hand

[AceHigh]

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Is this something you would do? If not, please explain how it is different than BK's situation.

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Because the opponent in BK's situation is unnecessarily slowing the game down. And then we have to go thru this dance everytime there is a showdown, because I have to play it the same way. Just turn over the hand(s), have the dealer push the pot, next hand.

[Ulysses]

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Because the opponent in BK's situation is unnecessarily slowing the game down.


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He's not! He just announced what he had!

[bobbyi]

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[ QUOTE ]
Is this something you would do? If not, please explain how it is different than BK's situation.

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Because the opponent in BK's situation is unnecessarily slowing the game down.

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By refusing to play his role in the traditional showdown dance, BK slowed down the game.

[elindauer]

Hi El Diablo,

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Is this something you would do? If not, please explain how it is different than BK's situation.

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No, it's not something that I would do. Then again, I wouldn't consider someone a dick for doing it either. My main objection is to the idea that bike is a dick for acting the way he did. I don't see it that way.

Your example to me is a little different because the rule allowing players to see mucked hands is designed to prevent collusion, while the showdown order is not. If you ask to see a mucked hand, you are taking advantage of the rule to gain information, clearly not in the spirit of the game. However, simply waiting for hands to be shown down in the correct order is not gaming the system to gain information. It is simply taking the information the rules give you by right.

I don't get too worked up about people asking to see mucked cards though, as there is obviously massive confusion over the point of this rule. If everyone agrees that all hands can be seen just for information, then I have no problem with that.

Of course, everyone can agree that any random action makes someone a jerk. If everyone agrees not to raise preflop in a game, and then somebody does it, well, you can look at that guy as a jerk. I'm simply saying that to me, singling out this action by bike as something that makes him a jerk is no more or less valid than when the tight passives get pissed when you sit down and start raising all the time, ruining their comfortable weak tight game.

Do you get angry when someone chooses to slowplay their hand, deceptively tricking you into losing extra money? No, of course not. That's the game, those are the rules. They don't have to raise aces in EP. But then why do you get angry when someone follows the rules of a showdown? It's all the same to me.

-eric

[Ulysses]

FWIW, e, I don't care if someone asks to see every mucked hand. I just flip mine over and show them. I really don't even care if they slowroll me, though I will store that piece of info and f with them later if given the right opportunity. I definitely don't get angry if someone does what bike did. I just consider them a different kind of player, one who doesn't consider what we play to be a gentleman's game.

[bobbyi]

I can't believe how many people disagree with Diablo's position here. In the game, there are social conventions including conventions about the showdown. Obviously, you aren't forced to follow them. But if you don't, you are being somewhat of a dick, just like with most other social conventions. Everyone responding to the basic concept civility by saying "nuh uh, you're not the boss of me, I can do whatever I want" are just demonstrating their immaturity. We all know (and aren't impressed) that you technically haven't violated any rule when you slowroll people and ask to see mucked hands and take the last bus seat before the pregnant woman can sit down and cut people off in traffic and curse at old ladies for walking down the street too slowly. But is that really the sort of person you want to be? Is that the sort of impact you want to have on the world?

Please note that this isn't directed at bk because the specific trangression here was (in my opinion) minor, but at the general attitude towards poker and life that people are presenting in the discussion.

[brick]

Bobby,
If everyone at the table understands that this is how a showdown should work, then by all means, be cool, do what everybody else is doing. No need to be a jerk. I am suprised that this ettique is accepted to the point where we can compare people who don't join in, to someone who totally doesn't care about other people.

Sometimes If someone abused the IWTSTH rule I explain that it's not cool to use that rule unless you suspect I'm cheating.
Should I similarly explain to people that if I say "I missed King high", I want them to turn over a better hand so I can quietly muck, because this is proper ettique?
I think this is the heart of the matter.

[SA125]

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In both cases, one player has let the other know his hand is good. In both cases, the player with the best hand has the right to see the worse hand.

I don't exercise my right in either case.

How about you?

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I don't disagree with you about making a point of this specific instance. However, in general, the whole table would be better off if everyone just rolled their hand in order like they're suppossed to. Saving time and gaining info.

When it's checked around on the river, too many people want to keep their hand a secret when they're suppossed to roll and always wait to see what everyone else has.

And it's usually the guy who's been leading the betting, then checks the river, then looks at the anxious guy who's been calling him to now figure his hand must be good and show it, which he does. The leader then mucks unseen.

It's not a big deal, but if everyone just followed the simple basic rules, no one would have to take it away from the gentleman game aspect and ask a guy to just roll his hand like he was suppossed too.

It makes me laugh when someone is now a nit for asking a guy to stop being a weasel.

[NLSoldier]

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It makes me laugh when someone is now a nit for asking a guy to stop being a weasel.

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Well put!

Hmm, I find myself disagreeing with a lot of respected posters in this thread. Isn't the key thing presumably that BK would never just announce his hand, but always turn it face up when first to act? If that is indeed the case, it seems to me the other guy is being more of a [censored]. It isn't that hard to turn your bluff face up and shrug and say 'You caught me'.

Edit: Gosh '[censored]' is filtered - sucks for all the Richards out there.