So I'm At The Pistol Range Saturday...

[DasLeben]

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You're walking down this street and someone pulls a knife on you and demands for your wallet, you pull out a gun and shoot him and his friend walks up behind you and slits your throat. Now, don't you wish you had just given him your wallet instead of dying?

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I never said I'd shoot him. You're just assuming that's what I'd say. If given the option, I'd hand over my wallet, car keys, etc. any day of the week. Hell, I'd try to run too.

Where did you get this impression?

I'd like to add one little tidbit of information. The scenario I gave you is completely true, and happened to me personally. Back in highschool, I apparently pissed off the wrong people. As I was walking down the street, a pickup truck pulls up, two guys with baseball bats jump out and start running at me. I was lucky and had a place to run to, and did manage to get away unhurt. Now, how would that have gone down if I didn't have a way of escape? And no, they didn't want my wallet.

[Blarg]

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I would like an answer to my question, however.

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You already know the answer.

But how about you answer this question (and then we can continue to ask stupid questions to each other till someone walks in my house and shoots me):

You're walking down this street and someone pulls a knife on you and demands for your wallet, you pull out a gun and shoot him and his friend walks up behind you and slits your throat. Now, don't you wish you had just given him your wallet instead of dying?

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Or try this: something unusual, like a ninja wiling to challenge a gun, doesn't happen.

Or, the guy robbing you kills you anyway.

Or, the guy never wanted to rob you much. He did want to kill you, though.

Ah ok my mistake. But butterflies and switches are still illegal to own in NY, right?

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A sidearm is like a tuxedo.

The need for one is an extraordinary rarity, but when it comes, absolutely nothing else will do.

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Correct. That's why I always carry around a couple of handgrenades. When you really need them, you _really_ need them.

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EDIT: Maybe a better way to answer this is to give you a scenario. Two guys are coming at you with baseball bats and you have no way of running away. How is it you're going to defend yourself?

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I can see the point of being prepared for upcoming danger. But; do you always, in your daily life use a hardhat to protect against falling objects? Do you refuse to drive in a car, because of the danger it entails?
Or is that less badass than carrying a gun, "just in case"?

[Derek in NYC]

Correct.

[jakethebake]

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In this world, all human beings can be classified as wolves, sheep, or sheepdogs.

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I like this quote. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Me too. Although I don't think it's true.

[Derek in NYC]

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That means at contact distances you should be able to make a center-of-mass accelerated pair from the holster in under 1 second

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No human I know of except maybe Cal Eldritch or Ernie Hill could react to a stimulus, draw from a concealed rig, and perform this exercise in under one second. The truth in handgun fights is that the guy who draws first, or already has their gun out wins 99% of the time.

If both parties go to cover, then accuracy skills come into big play.

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Below is the standard set by Chuck Taylor for the "speed rock" drill. (Taylor was the former operations manager at Gunsite under Cooper, and is the leading advocate of the speed rock technique) Perhaps our disconnect comes from the fact that these contact distance drills do not involve drawing from cover. The fact is, that if you are engaged at contact distance, you will need to employ defensive tactics to break contact, gain distance, and draw your sidearm.

"Stage One - Handgun
The first stage is shot with the handgun. Beginning with the Standard Drills of two shots each, the candidate faces a single Taylor Advanced Combat target. The first exercise is the Speed Rock close-quarters emergency technique: two shots, one second."

As to your comment about accuracy and the point of diminishing returns, let me be clear: At seven yards, I have the skills to dump magazine after magazine and cover the group with a 50 cent piece. I periodically practice extreme accuracy drills, and most instructors occasionally have you do something similar (like Jeff Gonzales' "dot torture" drill).

However, extreme accuracy drills should not comprise the main part of your training. In general, you should strive to shoot a six-inch, multi-shot group at the fastest cadence you are capable of. If your groups are tighter than six-inches, you should work on increasing your shot cadence, trigger reset, etc. This is a particularly difficult exercise when you are shooting non-standard responses (e.g., 4-5 shot dumps).

[Derek in NYC]

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Shoot several shots, and then check your accuracy. Remember, you fight like you train.

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Yes, but how much do you adhere to your own advice? Is every firing sequence preceeded by a drawstroke, or do you cheat and start with the pistol in hand? Is your firing sequence initiated in response to a stimulus like a timing beeper? Is your drawstroke done from concealment? Do you practice stepping left or right while drawing? Are you focussed on your front sight? Do you practice both the standard response (two to the body, one to the head) and a non-standard response (magazine dump)? Are you resetting your trigger correctly? After your shot string, do you stay on target for a second before dropping to the guard, breaking tunnel vision, and scanning left/right? Is your re-holstering move done only at the end of the exercise, and done for purely administrative purposes, or do you "auto-reholster"?

Gunhandling skills, while relatively easy to acquire, still involve relatively complex movements that must be done correctly. Working on accuracy at the expense of the other elements of the firing sequence is a big mistake, because you are not programming a realistic response. My own firing sequence is so automatic and fluid, that my mind is entirely freed to work on tactical decisionmaking. In Sims exercises, all of my mental attention is focussed on target indicators--in particular, the presence of a weapon; if I see one, everything else is automatic. Decisionmaking in a fluid environment under pressure is by far the most difficult aspect of tactical gunfighting. I can't tell you how many times I have shot a no-shoot scenario simply because the suspect made some furtive gestures in combination with disobeying verbal commands.

[Derek in NYC]

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is that less badass than carrying a gun, "just in case"?

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Some people who carry undoubtedly do so because they think it is "badass". They are morons.

Other people carry weapons, but do so with the understanding that the #1 option for personal security is a commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

That said, sometimes trouble finds you.