GiftofGab, Spirit Rock, Hassan Slask etc.

[Yeti]

Heheh, sweet, we are back on topic.

I had read a lot about it in the WPT forum before I saw it and as such, didn't think it was as bad as it could have been.

[KaneKungFu123]

Ive given alot of time to this thread and I want an answer:

Besides the fact that the players you listed dont post on 2+2, what lead you to believe that they arent from a 'poker commuinity', dont read poker books or discuss hands with other players, etc??

also, the UB 50/100 isnt the biggest game. the biggest game is in vegas. im pretty sure doyle and greenstein dont fall into your subset.

[ QUOTE ]
These players who are truly beating the biggest and hardest games never seem to come from poker communities. Are these players self-taught prodigies? is there something to being able to take an unbiased mind into analyzing situations? Is it simply more experience that makes the difference?

fim

ps- i know gab does post here, but he's not like diablo/bruiser etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Rosie5]

[ QUOTE ]
Heheh, sweet, we are back on topic.

I had read a lot about it in the WPT forum before I saw it and as such, didn't think it was as bad as it could have been.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah at laest it didnt' have any sentiments of "thuggery". If he started talking about '187' or something I'd have crapped my pants laughing at him

[capone0]

I think Books and such can only take a player to a certain level. After that other things need to be learned. Top players obviously play a lot and have a deeper understanding of the game through playing with the best than most of us will ever dream of. You can't get this from books and they probally won't ever reveal there true secrets. Yes in Super System, Doyle reveals some secrets, but the majority of his "secrets" are inherent to his game.

[fimbulwinter]

[ QUOTE ]
Ive given alot of time to this thread and I want an answer:

[/ QUOTE ]

hahaha. this is a good one. you've contributed little, dodged the actual focus of the post and succeeded at little besides reinforcing your reputation. nevertheless, this post does bring up a person that should be spoken to.

[ QUOTE ]
Besides the fact that the players you listed dont post on 2+2, what lead you to believe that they arent from a 'poker commuinity', dont read poker books or discuss hands with other players, etc??

also, the UB 50/100 isnt the biggest game. the biggest game is in vegas. im pretty sure doyle and greenstein dont fall into your subset.


[/ QUOTE ]

if we're going to talk about winning cash gamers, might as well talk about the winningest. ivey is obviously intelligent and self-taught. those people who are smart enough to play in games that tough could logic their way into all the conclusions held in a book like ToP etc.

The question im asking here is that, given very strong raw ability (which i think we've roundly agreed is necessary for big game success) is learning by emulation (which is a necessity if you plan on posting to get better) actually detrimental long-term.

what do you think KKF?

fim

[Marlow]

[ QUOTE ]
also, the UB 50/100 isnt the biggest game. the biggest game is in vegas. im pretty sure doyle and greenstein dont fall into your subset.


[/ QUOTE ]

No, but they DO have a community. They play against each other, but at the same time they are talking about the game as well. Why wouldn't they? It's what they do and what they love.

In fact, it has been argued by educational heavyweights that community is what best facilitates learning. People just don't do as well when they've got to figure it out on their own. Because of this, I would say that every player has a "community" of sorts. This may be a group of peers, a mentor, 2+2, whatever.

Marlow

[Yeti]

fimbul - just curious, are you familiar with how Howard Lederer learned poker?

[capone0]

Lost at 1/2 limit for 2 years, no?

[Yeti]

[ QUOTE ]
Lost at 1/2 limit for 2 years, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not quite. I was referring more to learning NL as a group at the Mayfair Club, where they'd play for 10 hours a day then discuss hands afterwards relentlessly.

The club bred Lederer, Seidel, Harrington, Zolotow, etc.

[ZeeJustin]

I would wager that all the players you are thinking of are part of a poker community. I am sure they discuss hands with other poker players on a regular basis.