Foxwoods $2000 NLHE Final Table Hand

[SossMan]

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Engaging in meaningful dialog with experienced, intelligent and thinking posters on 2+2 can do nothing but help my game in the long run.

Thanks again to all for sharing their thoughts......

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yeah, especially on this and some of the other strategy forums. these types of discussions can really help improve ones game.

I do, think, however, that you are overthinking this one. It is entirely possible that there is a higher level thinking at work, or that Carlo had a read that the LAG happened to be strong on this hand, but without that information, on the face of it, as Toro presented the problem, this is really a very easy call (and a bad limp).

-SossMan

[SossMan]

Please notice the time on our posts are at the same time, so don't you go telling people that I copied you...k? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Rushmore]

Nice post, Myrtle.

I don't think that you're overthinking this at all. I think it's possible that you're not 100% objective, but you're definitely thinking the whole thing through thoroughly, and that's good. His play is still bad here, but it's certainly worth examining.

You may need to start posting more and lurking less.

[Myrtle]

.......As I grow older, I think I am getting more in touch with the old saw....

"the more I learn, the less I know"!!

It is absolutely possible that I am getting hung up somewhere in my thought process, and that's why I keep trying to go at this in this string. Please forgive what some may interpret as stubborness on my part. I've run my own succesfull business since 1978, and one of the things that I've learned over the years that works for me is that until I can wrap my hands around the "big picture", I cannot truly understand on how to best deal with all of the details. The goal, of course, is to always make good business decisions......sounds pretty familiar, eh? (poker is all about making correct decisions with incomplete information).

IF somewhere in that process I am injecting a subjective (or, non-logical /incorrect) thought into the food chain, then it is highly likely that I am perverting the whole process and will end up creating some sort of logical fallacy.

In this case, it COULD be that simple.....but I will continue to think about it and look for more opinions here because I believe I have yet to uncover all of the possible 'thinking points' on this one........

[Emperor]

I think Carlo's tactic to trap this guy is a great plan.

Carlo should then assume that this guy can push at anytime, and decide on a range of hands to trap with.

He should also decide on a range of hands to push with and not be too disappointed if Mr. Aggro calls.

I think AK falls into the 2nd category and not the first.

If he pushes here and gets called then it is the same result as if he is forced to call an all-in bet. If he doesn't get called then he has picked up ante's/blinds for another orbit to catch his trapping hand AND the short stack probably gets knocked out.

I would say Carlo made a tactical error here by including AK in his list of trapping hands.

[patrick dicaprio]

despite the payouts if you are playing to win you have to call here.

Pat

[Myrtle]

...any of us that have been around for a while have heard the 'playing to win' mantra many times.

Rather than accept it just because it exists and is generally accepted on it's own face value, I'd like to explore what that statement means.

I have the feeling that it means different things to different people.....

If you're at this stage and you fully embrace the 'playing to win' thought process...................

Does it mean that you should be willing to get involved with marginal coin-flip situations, regardless of any of the other considerations? (Payout structure comes to mind here for me as a primary consideration).

Let's say, for sake of discussion, that the SB moves in on you in this situation, and turns over 77. Now you don't have to wonder about what he's holding. You're a slight dog.......Do you call in this situation? What specific things will YOU be thinking about, when he flips over his cards, that will determine whether you call or fold?

What if he flips over AQo and you have him dominated....what's your play then?

Sure, it's a no-brainer when you have him dominated. It's also a no-brainer for him to push if he wakes up with AA. But, we're not talking about no-brainer decisions here.

We're talking about the math.....plus your relative postiton vs. the other 3 players (chip wise and table position wise)......plus the payouts.

What I'm trying to get to here is that perhaps if you hang you hat on the math only, perhaps that is a level one playing decision? Where if you consider all the other ramifications and put them into proper perspective, one might be raising one's level of play to the next level?

As Joe Walsh once sang...... "I'm just looking for clues at the scene of the crime"......

[Toro]

Hey Myrtle, I'm bumping this thread so it won't get too buried in case Carlo wants to respond when he gets back from Tunica. I just checked results btw and he got a decent cash in the $3000 NLHE event, 11th place for $12,956.