Axs - pair +flush draw - Page 8

Smasharoo · #71 12-13-2004, 03:13 PM

I'm a bit unclear on the concept of when a bet is for value

When the chance of you winning the hand is better than the odds the calls of your bet would lay to you.

Easy example, you have the nut flush on an unpaired board with no straight flush possible. You have the absolute best hand. You'd bet, raise, re-raise etc for as much as you can because youre likelyhood of winning is 100%. You'd take a bet of $1 to your $1000 from another player if it was the best you could do because your odds of winning are infinate.

Slightly more complex example. You have second highest set on a board with no straight or flush possabilities. You think your odds of having the best hand are 80%. You bet for value because the majority of the time you'll have the best hand.

Flop example. You have a nut flush draw on the button and there are 7 other people in the hand. The BB bets, all call and it's your action. You raise for value because well over 1 time in 4 you will win the hand, and it's likely that everyone will call your raise.

Raising for value bsically evolves around a concept called "pot equity". When your "pot equity" is high, you raise for value. When your pot equity is low you might raise for other tactical reasons, or you might just call or fold. Your pot equity is high when your chances of winning the hand are greater than your share of the pot. If there are 8 people in a pot and you win the hand 1 time in 4, your pot equity is twice what the average would be. You could raise for value in this situation if you were relatively sure that 4 people or more would call your raise.

etc.

WSOP Bound · #72 12-13-2004, 03:24 PM

Thank you for taking your time to reply. I understand pot equity and how it's tied to value bets. In obvious situations I can leverage it fine, but still struggle with the more difficult decisions. The part that I was unclear on was a comment that basically stated that if a river bet is for value then the PF call was right. That logic doesn't seem to float. It appears to me that there are alot of potential situation where the PF play was insane, but you hit the flop well and are therefore in a position to bet for value. The reverse also seems true.

Smasharoo · #73 12-13-2004, 03:41 PM

Thank you for taking your time to reply. I understand pot equity and how it's tied to value bets. In obvious situations I can leverage it fine, but still struggle with the more difficult decisions. The part that I was unclear on was a comment that basically stated that if a river bet is for value then the PF call was right. That logic doesn't seem to float. It appears to me that there are alot of potential situation where the PF play was insane, but you hit the flop well and are therefore in a position to bet for value. The reverse also seems true.

It is. I was mainly being a pain in the ass because people were crediting the PF raiser with solid positional tactical pre-flop raising then assuming he'd call the river with junk. I'm more inlcined to give credit or not rather than give credit for flawless PF play but assume they suck postflop.

WSOP Bound · #74 12-13-2004, 03:56 PM

OK thank you, I'm trying to learn the game and thought I was getting confused on the concept. I agree with your opinion that you should give credit all the way *MOSTLY*. However, it does seem to me that there are a lot of players out there that have learned pre-flop requirements, but don't have a clue how to play their hands post flop. Truth be told I'd put myself in that grouping. It's easy to study starting hand charts and get a solid grasp on that quickly. Learning how to play post flop is a lot more arbitrary and therefore more difficult to get a grasp on.

Smasharoo · #75 12-13-2004, 04:08 PM

Learning how to play post flop is a lot more arbitrary and therefore more difficult to get a grasp on.

Also makes you a lot more money.

Shillx · #76 12-13-2004, 04:49 PM

Wow this thread is out of control. Things "coming back" to you are rarely any good. Old girl friends, bounced checks, leftovers that have been passed around the dinner table because no one wants them....I'll say it again. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] When was the last time you called a river check/raise and won?

Bet the river in this hand.

Brad