A new theory on Negraneau challenge matches

[good2cu]

Smoothcall you realize that Daniel built his bankroll playing ring limit HE, and considers it his best game. I think your what the pros would like to call a "starting hand policeman". If you honestly think that Daniel can't have a higher hourly rate then you, well ovbiously your a [censored] idiot, but I mean I don't even have to state this, this comment is just a joke.

[Your Mom]

[ QUOTE ]
Playing headsup is not the same as beating the "big game". There is alot of luck involved and Daniel may have practiced and studied alot of headup before issuing his challenge(at least i hope he did, most smart people would before issuing a challenge to the world). If you look at some of my original responses in this thread my point was that he(daniel) has a better chance headup because loose play is not a detriment headup(probably danny's biggest weakness imo). So him holding his own against barry headup is irrelevant(not to mention not enough hours). I question daniel's ability in full ring games, and whether he could and did consistently beat live games on his way to the top.

As you said we're not even close enough to enough hours to say whether he can hold his own in the big game. Btw Gus Hansen played the big game for awhile. Does that mean Gus held his own?

Its not my perosnal mission to see everybody agrees with me that danny sucks. Its my mission to get you guys to question his ability instead of just saying he's great because he won the lottery and can play that high now. I think i make a good argument the fact that he has gone bropke playing live when having big bankrolls in the past. But i do regret attacking him so strongly. I think my speculations are deserved but i admit maybe i'm being too harsh. It's just 3 things always annoy me so i try to make people see what i see. 1) that its nausiating to hear how everybody thinks he is a world class live player without knowing. And the only thing we know is he's had troubles in the past live. 2) its nausating hearing and seeing the way danny acts. He comes off very arrogant. 3)He attacks others he dislikes by calling them out on their abilities. (barry,annie,phil h. and others). Not that he dislikes phil h. as much as the others. but probably dislikes him the way we dislike him. not really dislike but nausiated by his arrogance. But this being said i wish i hadn't attacked him so strongly. He hasn't done anything to me and he's really not a bad guy(actually probably a very nice guy). Just a bit too arrogant for my taste. but this is common with young people that come into money or famous. so maybe he will mature. but either way i've been to harsh. i would apologize to him for being mean and attacking. but do think my questions on moving up the ranks playing live are justified.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, though I do think it is important to note that just because Danny plays loose in tourneys, that doesn't mean he plays loose in cash games.

[capone0]

I have really no opinion about Danny's skills. I assume there pretty good since he's won multiple tournaments. Why do you think just because he's won touraments, he's won the lottery. Obviously to compete at such a high level, he has a lot more than luck going for him. To play that consistant, especially over the last couple of years he has considerable skill. Maybe not solely in limit hold'em but other games. Didn't he make the final 2 of the Party Poker Limit Tourney? Your right, he didn't work his way up the limit cash ladder solely with cash games, but do all players do that? Do all the big game players play solely cash games? I don't think so. So why are you even bringing this up. Doyle didn't grow into the big game solely through cash limit, but he's one hell of a player. Why are you discrediting Daniel's skill because he won tournies.

For instance, alot of big game cash players on Stars 100/200 are now big time pros due to live tournament results (John D'Agistino, Dustin "Neverwin" Wolff, Michael Mizarchi, and now Tim "Dan Druff" Whittles), are they any less of pros because there transistion from the big 100/200 to higher stakes was not due to consistant Stars money but tourney results. Why is that a big deal?

Yes in the past, Danny might have blown money in cash games, but is that true now? According to Barry G, nope. What did Doyle say, you have to lose your tail twice to learn how to play?

[Smoothcall]

true. the few tmes of heard him discuss live play though he sounds loose there as well. but your right possible just he noramlly plays solid.

[ChuckyB]

Here's three that probably factor in:

1) Promotion for the new casino. Whatever Negreanu's getting paid, it's better for him if people are thinking about the Wynn.
2) Attract high-stakes players to the Wynn. Who would open a casino without a strategy to attract the big players?
3) And this must factor in, at least a little...Negreanu wants to become a better poker player. He has the means and the opportunity to play against the best players in the world. What better way to improve your poker skills than PLO against Sam Farha? Or stud with Phil Ivey?

[Smoothcall]

I'm not discrediting danny's skill because he won the money in tournaments. I'm saying he won it there and not in live games. So while one can argue that he may be a skillful tournament player and maybe as great as most think, but maybe just a good tourney player who ran real good. Howard lederer i think said this on that full tilt poker show. somthing to the effect he ran good at the right time.(maybe it was annie actually). that doesn't mean he is or isn't good. just means he ran good. But whther he is great tourney player, or good, or whatever has nothing to do with live game play. i think his live play is still unproven to go calling him world class. especially when all we know is about blowing big bankrolls. he may become great, time will tell. but right now i think its ridiculous for anyone, including himself, to say he is a world class live player.

[ChuckyB]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I couldn't find Mason or Roy on the list. Maybe that is because they aren't world class players?


[/ QUOTE ]

To be fair, the reason you can't find Mason or Roy on Barry Greenstein's list is that, like me and you, we haven't played with Barry at the stakes required to make his list. His website lists the requirements.

[Smoothcall]

Where is your proof he bulit his bankroll playing live limit holdem? i believe this is a fabrication. i content he had nothing playing live and was in debt to friends. Until he pulled off these tournies in last couple years. You are just talking but not showing or saying anything.

Why am i an idiot if i question if he would have a higher hourly rate than me in my limit game? Because you believe him to be superman and are angry becasue i dare to question this? I don't care to get into an angry argument with you(not to mention the moderator doesn't like me. so i have to be careful when others like to yell and call me names i could get banned for your insults at me even if i respond in a civil manner like i am here). So if you want me continue to respond to your posts in the future please keep the idiot comments to a minimum. i figure for this one. you cant help yourself everybody likes to take a shot at me. especially when they know i'm not allowed to take a shot back or i will be banned.

So again where is your proof he would do better in my limit?

[capone0]

So beating Barry G or even coming even with Barry G who himself states is the biggest winner at the big game doesn't make him world class? I guess it was just HU, but HU is a big monster. I don't know Danny's results at the big game recently (before the deal) or at the smaller 1-2k game, but I'm assuming it's pretty good. He probally isn't at Harmon, Johnny, Doyle, Chip level yet when it comes to cash games, but he's probally a small step below that, and there aren't that many at that level. How many players are in the world class stature according to you in cash games?

Barry G
Doyle
Younger Doyle
Chip Reese
Harmon
Ivey
Farha (PLO)?
Giang

Who else? Obviously his live HU skills are pretty good, as you said earlier I don't know how that translates to in larger (number of people) cash games.

[GrannyMae]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Mike:

I agree. While I'm sure he's getting a lot by most people's standards, $3 million sounds way too high.

best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

true story...

i brought with me, and picked up more at the trade show, several new poker magazines. i also brought with me a couple of past issues of casino player.

while in vegas during the ME, ON THE TOILET in my room, i read this in a small sidebar story in one of the new mags or one i brought with me. i was surprised, and read it again and again.





coming home, i had bought so many gifts that i had to purge all my magazines i brought. so whatever publication it was in, i won't be able to find the hard copy story because i trashed them all.

while it is entirely possible that the magazine source got it wrong, i can assure that this was not a Granny, senility moment. o'malley would know more than most (except daniel and wynn), so i tend to think the story was wrong. however, this story is currently in print, valid or not.

i can't find it online, but since it was a new edition of whatever mag it was, it is possible the archiving is not done yet. i'll search again in a few weeks, but like i said, it was just something in a magazine and nothing i heard from any horse's mouth.