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#71
10-16-2005, 04:07 PM
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #2 River
*I* would put him on range X and push the turn.
Gigabet apparently put him on range Y. Vs. range Y, he is ahead enough to try to show the hand down, but not enough to put in an additional 800 chips. Almost all of the hands in range Y that Gigabet was ahead of on the turn filled up on the river. Villain did not bet, so he has none of those, leaving, basically, QT and the very very rare AQ/lesser ace. 
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#72
10-16-2005, 04:11 PM
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #2 River
[ QUOTE ]
Almost all of the hands in range Y that Gigabet was ahead of on the turn filled up on the river. [/ QUOTE ] And those hands CHECKED?
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#74
10-16-2005, 04:20 PM
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #2 River
[ QUOTE ]
see edit [/ QUOTE ] Well I understand that you would push the turn. But GIVEN that you got to the river how Giga did, I'm saying you cant check behind. Even if Gigabet has more of a read etc etc and is a bit speculative heading into the river, the check dispells all of my worries about being behind there. This is a party 100er, not Danny N playing Phil Ivey and having a sick read that a river bet will fold him out but a check will induce a bet. I also get my money in before the river FWIW. Everett
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#76
10-16-2005, 04:43 PM
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #2 River
[ QUOTE ]
OK. Given you put him on range Y and only called the turn, what hands that checked are you now ahead of? [/ QUOTE ] Well I have him on range Z. Just because Giga took this line because he had villain on range Y does not make range Y any more correct. Based on the villain's action, which is the only information available to both me and Giga, I could see him having Ax, KQ/KT, and a small chance of QJ/JT/QT. IMO the only thing that can make a push incorrect here is a read on the villain, which we do not have. OK sure maybe he had QT in this particular hand and we're supposed to OOOH and AAAH at Giga's read but the vast majority of the time this hand goes down against a party 100er pushing is correct. So is getting the money in sooner. Everett
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#77
10-16-2005, 04:47 PM
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #2 River
[ QUOTE ]
OK. Given you put him on range Y and only called the turn, what hands that checked are you now ahead of? [/ QUOTE ] That's my problem. How much are willing to hope he has a lousy ace?
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#78
10-16-2005, 04:51 PM
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #2 River
[ QUOTE ]
Well I have him on range Z. Just because Giga took this line because he had villain on range Y does not make range Y any more correct. Based on the villain's action, which is the only information available to both me and Giga [/ QUOTE ] The only thing Gigabet is doing in this hand that you are not doing is trusting his turn read, range Y, enough so that the river check changes nothing at all.
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#79
10-16-2005, 05:08 PM
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #2 River
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Well I have him on range Z. Just because Giga took this line because he had villain on range Y does not make range Y any more correct. Based on the villain's action, which is the only information available to both me and Giga [/ QUOTE ] The only thing Gigabet is doing in this hand that you are not doing is trusting his turn read, range Y, enough so that the river check changes nothing at all. [/ QUOTE ] I also was trusting my turn read, which told me to jam. I see your point, that if your read tells you to call the turn then yes I guess you should check the river. But I disagree with that read. So on the turn and river I'm going to be telling you to jam it in there, because that's my read and I'm standing by it. I really want to see more justification for having a read that would make someone take this line though. I haven't seen anyone be in favor of it except for Giga himself. I just think he's getting a little TOO fancy here. Lloyd, let's see this "master" analysis. Everett
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#80
10-16-2005, 05:19 PM
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Re: Play a Hand With the Masters #2 River
I think the point of this hand is Way ahead way behind.
And the takeaway is that villain will fold to a: push on the flop push on the turn push on the river (difficult laydown) When he is behind. Every push is poor in my opinion, and everyone is assuming that villain will call when he is behind. .
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