On people who play poker for a living

[MrMon]

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In a poker game, the loser doesn't gain anything when he loses his money.


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Incorrect. In every hand of poker played, each player gains the chance to win the money of the opposing players. Each player values this chance differently - some value it as an intellectual challenge, some value it as a thrill, some value it as a way to prove their superiority, some a mixture of all three. There may even be different ways to value it (social interaction, storytelling, the dream of putting a bad beat on Hellmuth, etc.), but make no mistake, every poker player values that chance. They value it more than they value the money it takes to take that chance. And as the hand progresses, they reevaluate their chances at winning and decide if they value that chance more than the money required to continue.

Now, at the end of the hand, or night, they may look back and say, "That was stupid", but at the time of the transaction, they valued the chance to win more than they valued the money. In other words, they are being entertained by the chance to win, regardless of whether or not they do so.

[FishAndChips]

Wow! This Gamblor cat sounds almost suicidal. I won't even mention all the good he could do for the world if he didn't waste all of his time posting messages on the internet. Why that may just push him over the edge....

[RollaJ]

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Every person who works and makes money recycles it back into the economey, and that in turn helps others.

Poker winners win money and spend it on goods/services which gives other people work and helps them feed their family



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The difference between poker players and people who work for a living is that the latter produce something.

Poker players don't produce anything.

If you make a song, and sell it on the open market, the person who pays for it makes a conscious decision that he'd rather have your song than the money he parted with.

It's a win-win situation.

If your CD wasn't worth at least ten dollars to him, he wouldn't have bought it. He's gained, because he'd rather have your songs than his money, and you've gained, because you'd rather have his money than the CD you sold him.

In a poker game, the loser doesn't gain anything when he loses his money.

It's purely a transfer of money. The loser isn't any better off than he was before. In fact, he's worse off by exactly the amount the winner won. Poker is a zero-sum game. There's no multiplier.

Losing your money is not entertaining.

If you think people play poker for entertainment, consider this - when you go to see "Star Wars," you part with your money up front.

How many poker players would pay you - the supposedly winning poker player - if they had to pay you for your time up front?

People are entertained by winning, and they play for the chance to win. If anybody is providing "entertainment" at the table, it's the losers, not the winners.

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You are incorrect, ask the millions of people who go to casinos...... the whole industry is based on the fact that people find gambling, the chance of a nice score, the rush to be very entertaining. My mother goes to AC to play slots about once a month, 90% of the times she says oh, I lost about $200, but I had a good time, and it was a nice day away from things..... If I went to a regular hotel it would cost me that much anyway.


Also, to say that poker players dont produce anything is true, but that is the basis of the entire service industry. What do :
airlines
entertainers
gardners
resturaunts
taxis
etc..... produce? Nothing! They merely provide a service. That is what poker is..... entertainment. Believe me if people were losing, and didnt find it entertaining, They Wouldn't Come Back

[imported_anacardo]

IT'S TIME TO FREE YOUR MOTHER FROM HIS NEON CLAWS.

Urge: sated.

[fimbulwinter]

you are correct. this is why people like doctors, teachers, EMT's and priests make very little. to some of us, the need to contribute in a tangible way to society is worth far more than money, to others it is not.

in both cases its about maximizing personal contentment. that some people can do it playing poker baffles me.

fim

[Laddy]

IMO, as people have said, doctors, teachers and lawyers all contribute something to society by helping others, or passing on knowledge in some way or another. This can not be said for most "legit" jobs however. I work for a huge multinational corporation, and what I do in my job (or pretty much anyone else in the whole organisation) just makes me a small cog in a huge machine. The only purpose of this machine is to make the directors and shareholders of the company rich. That's it pretty much. You're not helping the world in any way by making an organisation rich and successful. In many cases you're damaging the planet (many of these companies care more about their business than the enviroment.)

I'm leaving in 8 weeks time.....

A pro poker player's not any less helpful to the environment than anyone working in a typical big company.

Anyone else agree/disagree with me?

Laddy.

[Biloxi]

Hard to say they contribute to society from an industry driven by greed. Im referring to those who play for a living, not players who play for entertainment. Almost like society slugs [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]. Poker needs more people like Barry Greenstein. Not saying they should give their winnings to charity, but if you are winning hundreds of thousands a year you can easily do some good.
Just my 2cents

[pokergripes]

Yes, have to disagree, because that's just plain dumb. Obviously, the reason big companies make a lot of money is that they're doing something people want to pay for (aka "contributing something to society"). Not to mention that the people who own the companies are...us. That is, the >50% of American households that own stock, not the small minority who, despite working for a big company, have no idea how big companies contribute to society. Oh, by the way--do they pay you? Is that helpful to you? See, a contribution to that little part of society that is you. I think you need to find some new reading materials [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[LinusKS]

I'm skeptical of the gambling industry's effort to classify itself as "entertainment" rather than gambling. (Joke: Why do they call it "gaming" rather than gambling? Because otherwise you might think you had a chance to win.)

But I do agree casinos have a better claim on being in the entertainment business than poker players.

For one thing, casinos go way out of their way to make the experience as pleasant as possible. There are the free drinks, the short-skirted ladies, the nice chairs, and the guy who comes around and asks you if you want to be comped - if you play enough.

Poker players don't do any of those things. We don't wear short skirts (most of us), we don't fetch anyone drinks, and we certainly don't comp the losing players.

In other words, casinos go out of their way to be entertaining. Poker players don't.

When was the last time you heard a blackjack dealer belittling a player's bets? Or a pit boss coming over to explain that the player is only lucky, and eventually the house will take all his money back?

Yet every poker table has it's table coach, and even 2+2ers can't seem to help themselves from belittling poor (but lucky) players.

The simple fact of the matter is that no poker player is "entertaining" any of the other players in any sense other than filling out a seat. And if the player is winning, chances are the other players are wishing it was a loser who was sitting there instead.

Because - with the possible exception of your grandmother - pretty much the whole world loves winning, but hates losing, when it comes to gambling.

As evidence, try searching the archives of 2+2 for the phrase "I lost 100 big bets today," and see how often it's followed by "and boy, did I have fun!"

If your grandmother genuinely enjoys losing money (and isn't just rationalizing), she's the exception, not the rule.

[Shaun]

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1) We suck money out of the economy and don't really provide anything in return. We take take and take and nobody really benefits from our existence. We are the sewers of the economy.

2)Do you have a job in which you provide some benefit to someone in exchange for your income (engineer, lawyer, busboy, anything, manufacture fake dog [censored], anything)

3)Do you volunteer in the community?

4)Is money and comfort the only thing you care about? Does every decision you make first require EV calculations?

5)What do you do to make someone else's experience this planet better off?


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1. Your point? Everyone is basically worthless in the grand scheme of things, whether the masses think you're a sewer or Pope Benedict the 16th, you're just as worthless in my opinion. In fact, I could make the argument that the Pope is worse than a poker player, but that's a whole other thread.

2. I could argue that I do, but the truth is that I just don't care if I get money in exchange for labor. I have a way I like better. Human value, despite what "the man" would have us believe, is not derived by the value of your labor.

3. No. I live around a bunch of religious kooks whose whole existence revolves around judging people and listening to Sean Hannity. That said, no matter where I lived, the ideals of community and social responsibility mean next to nothing to me. If I were ever to provide any service to the community, it would be to try and dismantle the structures that are destroying it rather than reinforce a path that I disagree with.

4. Absoultely not. I love my family and my wife more than anything. I do like the freedom that money provides, but I am happy with enough, and don't need more than enough, if that makes sense. I'm not greedy, more like efficient.

5) I love my family and friends. I am always there to help or talk to them about anything at anytime, and they know this. My ideals are strange perhaps, but those I love are more important than the "community" any day. I don't love the community- in fact it's love in name alone when someone says that they do IMHO. So I don't lie to myself or to others. I love my family. The community, whatever that is, can thrive or falter for all I care. It's not pretty or noble or popular but it's the truth.