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#1
11-07-2005, 08:57 PM
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Re: What\'s With This DERB?
[ QUOTE ]
It's highly likely that he is a small winner(or a loser, but let's find a middle ground) who is running insanely hot. We really don't need any more long retarded threads that are filled with opinions of self-righteous people who think they are going to finally be the voice of reason that makes everyone else see the light. -James [/ QUOTE ] How about he's either what you said (as Glenn and others wrote previously), or he's a great player who from time to time donks off some of his profit? 
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#2
11-07-2005, 09:05 PM
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Re: What\'s With This DERB?
Can someone post stats of 30/60 regulars with similar stats as DERB so I can see the BB/100 difference?
This would help in the compare and contrast and really help emphasize just how much of an anomaly DERB may be.
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#3
11-07-2005, 05:26 PM
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Re: What\'s With This DERB?
[ QUOTE ]
In all seriousness I don't understand why he has gotten so much attention. [/ QUOTE ] I certainly can't speak for the most of the posters in this trainwreck of a thread, but he has my attention because if he is truely winning as much as he appears to be, figuring out how and why could allow me to make significantly more money.
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#4
11-08-2005, 01:36 PM
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Re: What\'s With This DERB?
I haven't seen this guy play, but I agree...assuming he's not cheating or colluding and doesn't hack into other ppl.'s computers to see their holecards...lol, there can be something to learn from his play/style that
can make some of us more money at Limit... It sounds like this guy cannot be moved off a hand and never folds... he puts in a lots of money pre-flop (too much to be profitable at limit, the PokerTracker experts say...) and he "goes to war" on the turn... So, if the other players at the table all know this, they are FORCED to play "showdown poker" against him, and never can steal pots from him... this must allow DERBy to pick up 100s of pots without a fight b/c you KNOW you aren't going to make him fold... His play probably even pisses off a lot of tight-agg. good players and forces them to make occastional mistakes and even TILT... Even knowing that you just HAVE to make a hand against him to win, It's very tough to play against somone who always sees the river card... (everytime a draw completes for him, he wins the pot...never folding and missing out on these pots that many of us "normal" players do... think about the zillions of times your 2 outer FH hit the river or your inside str8 hit on the river, but you had folded earlier in the hand - this never happens to DERB it sounds like...) Also, and this might serve as some explanation why other players with his PT stats don't show a BB/100 profit like him (or are even just flat out losers), the guy might be totally fearless at that limit - as if any "normal" 30/60 player were at .50/1. If the guy's rich and the bets mean nothing to him (which it sounds like they don't) it allows him to just have fun and explore any style at 30/60 he wishes - without the fear (or the "hang-over"/bad-puke-feeling we'd all get if we lost $20-30K screwing around/playing "bad-poker" at that Limit). He sounds like he's totally unafraid of losing $20K, etc. just to figure out a winning (alternate) style (and maybe even some crazy Finlander has this great new crazy loose agg. strategy that he only shares with his countrymen, I don't know)...most everyone doesn't go to that high a limit to screw around and develop strategy/new strategies...he probably has fun bluffing other players out, hitting longshots, and winning 100s of uncontested pots... In theory, correct me if I am wrong, If all of the players at 30/60 or any limit (or the vast majority of them) all play 1 style (tight aggressive - to varying degrees), then wouldn't the most profitable strategy be to play another style to exploit the ABC play of all the tight aggs.? (I do not mean to say that the play of the typical Party 30/60 player is basic "ABC," but in a sense it is/can be said to be ABC to the super-observant/expert player...another player vehemently argued with the NL Guy who posted how Limit is so "mechanical..."and another poster said that certain hands just "can't" be profitably played pre-flop if the edge you have at the table is small, etc.). I'm not saying that DERB's strategy is better that being a top tier Tight-agg., cause it's obviously not...but it might be better/more profitable than being a sub-par (or even on-par) tight-agg., like most of the players there probably are... DERB probably perfectly executes his crazy loose agg. style as loose and crazily as one possibly can, he's probably got a great card-reading ability, and he probably has been running a little hot to boot... ...Considering the variance he must encounter combined with the sheer wackiness of his play makes his strategy damn near impossible for the "normal" player to be able to duplicate. Any of us "concerned with profit" and "making + EV decisions all the time" players would be both unable and unwilling to execute the DERBy strategy at the tables... what a lucky-dumb-genius this guy is! lol It sounds to me like the "average" 30/60 player gets murdered by DERB. Only the better players adjust and can make money off of him. (but I could be totally worng here...theorizing...just bite at anything you want!) Isn't that what Gus Hansen has done to achieve so much success in the WPT? If players know that you will play "any two" cards and they know you are capable of capping the Turn with nothing, they fear you... They second guess themselves... They get thrown off their game... DERB probably makes a killing off all the more ABC tight aggs. that fail to adjust to him and just play "showdown poker" against him... If you know who he is and adjust to him, you probably love him b/c he is just a pot-builder ATM machine for you! (who helps you put that down payment on your used Caddy...lol) Apologize if nothing I said was "revolutionary" - just my 2 cents... feel free to flame away you greedy mid-high stakes b@st@r#s!
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#5
11-07-2005, 06:06 PM
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Re: What\'s With This DERB?
[ QUOTE ]
I don't post here ever because I play NL, but do read a lot of the threads here because there are some great posters. You guys are going crazy over this. He doesn't play the standard 2p2 style and people are going off the deep end. Accusing him of cheating, chip dumping, collusion, are you kidding? What exactly is the fascination with this player? 2p2 is not the mecca of the poker world. This forum does not set the standard of what a poker player should do. There is much more to this game than playing tight and relatively unimaginative poker with playing a ton of tables. That style is certainly profitable and it's basically what I do, but the sheer disbelief that people have been showing is shocking. In all seriousness I don't understand why he has gotten so much attention. Is it really that earth shattering to you guys that someone is bucking the general trend of 2p2? Someone clear this up for me. [/ QUOTE ] well you stated it yourself, you play NL and there are a thousand ways to skin a cat at NL but limit even at the higher levels (full ring) is mechanical. Yes you can vary a bit but you can't put in so many bets badly and still come out such a huge winner. Metagame stuff doesn't really work in 9 or 10 player online games. Believe what you want but the metagame stuff does not make Any Significant difference when the variables are full ring ring games + online.
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#8
11-07-2005, 06:24 PM
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Re: What\'s With This DERB?
[ QUOTE ]
village idiot ???,,,explain "chip dumping" [/ QUOTE ] its like money laundering through a poker site, basically you intentionally lose chips to transfer money to someone with no records of it
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#10
11-08-2005, 12:34 AM
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This metagame talk is silly
In the party games it only takes a a coupe out of line plays to gain all the metagame effects. I am far from an overaggressive player and I would say basically no one ever folds. I would not get any more benefit by three betting the turn when I am drawing dead. I regularly get called down by 99 on a AJ2xx board after I cap preflop. What more can I ask for?
Derb is not winning becasue he gets all this value that others do not. NO ONE FOLDS on Party. I have personally played about 10k hands with him and I find him to be an OK player. My guess is that he is a small winner who has run rather well (I have him as a significant loser since the first thread). I actually do think he plays his hands as if he could see others hole cards though. If you had such ability, you would be sure to make a lot of totally dumb plays when way behind in order to 'prove' you weren't a cheat. His EV would be so high (8BB/100?) that he could spew very frequently and it wouldnt matter. All that said, I do not put a lot of weight on the cheat theory. Additionally, my experience at the tables with him leads me to think that he is an OK players who is lucky. He sucks out a ton. I have not noticed that he wins an unusual number of pots uncontested. I have not noticed that people give him unwarrented action either. He plays most every day, just go watch him. I think you will decide that there is no secret sauce there that enables him to have a 3BB earn. These threads are starting to be like an urban myth. His play is readily observable, go watch...
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