I've had enough of us killing women and children

[CORed]

You forgot one: Biology. From the population standpoint, men are much more expendable than women. One man can impregnate many women. I will grant you that homo sapiens is now much more likely to become extinct due to overbreeding than underbreeding, but evolution, both cultural and genetic, makes it almost inevetible that women will be valued more highly than men.

[nicky g]

"The George Khoury incident proves, beyond reasonable doubt the Arab terrorist anti-Jewish racism against Jews, not Israelis (as Khoury was an Israeli Arab mistaken for an Israeli Jew)."

It shows there are racists amongst Palestinian militants. I've never disputed that. It doesn't excuse IDF actions and it doesn't prove anything about positions on the Israeli side or about the IDF use of human shields.

"No, it hasn't. "

Again:

[ QUOTE ]

During the al-Aqsa intifada, IDF soldiers have used Palestinian civilians as human shields. This practice has been most common during IDF operations in Palestinian population centers, such as Operation Defensive Shield.

The method is the same each time: soldiers pick a civilian at random and force him to protect them by doing dangerous tasks that put his life at risk . For example, soldiers have ordered Palestinians to:


enter buildings to check if they are booby-trapped , or to remove the occupants


remove suspicious objects from roads used by the army


stand inside houses where soldiers have set up military positions, so that Palestinians will not fire at the soldiers

walk in front of soldiers to shield them from gunfire, while the soldiers hold a gun behind their backs and sometimes fire over their shoulders .

The soldiers in the field did not initiate this practice; rather, the order to use civilians as a means of protection was made by senior army officials


[/ QUOTE ]
Human shields

[nicky g]

"A lot of US this and US that in your posts. Last time I checked Britain was knee deep in this war as well. Or is it just the American battles you find more interest in? "

It was US forces that killed those people. Regardless, I am not British and have absolutely zero respect for the British army. Well, prehaps minimally more than the US army but that probably stands at less than zero.

Regarding my news, I get it from a range of sources including Arabic, US, British, Irish and continental European.

[nicky g]

"Your correct, and their have also been many battles where they have claimed we bombed schools, women, children, etc.."

You're correct, and there have been numerous occasions when the coalition has.

[ACPlayer]

You are young and have much to learn. First let me help you read: there is a word in the sentence -- operation.

Second, let me suggest you read Edward Deming's work on the subject of Quality and measurement of quality. Quality of an operation is measured at the edges and not necessarily in the heart of the operation. You measure the quality of the operation by seeing how it is performing at the margins and then try to improve the errors, again at the margin.

So, yes judging an operation must be done at the edges and the behaviour of the few and the response to the behaviours of the few is fundamental to evaluating the operation.

The operation we are judging, which has been tainted by the actions of the few, is the detention and management of the prisoners at the various institutions around Iraq.

Your example is meaningless. Osama and his men, executed a difficult plan with tremendous difficulties on 9/11. The operation was nearly flawless in reaching its objectives. However, Osama and his crew are still abhorrent terrorists that the world would be better without them. Osama and his crew are not elected representatives of the Muslim community. If they were then perhaps your example may be more meaningful.

Of course, the Islam haters have taken Osama's behaviour and made it part of Islam and the hating of all muslims.

[Gamblor]

The operation we are judging, which has been tainted by the actions of the few, is the detention and management of the prisoners at the various institutions around Iraq.

I was referring to the War in Iraq, not the administration of prisoners in Iraq.

Of course, the Islam haters have taken Osama's behaviour and made it part of Islam and the hating of all muslims.

Naturally, this is why the statement regarding Osama as all of Islam was so fittingly ridiculous given that I was judging the abuse as all of the War, not the prisoner administration.

[ACPlayer]

Do you ever read the garbage you write?

What did the War in Iraq have to do with Osama? Even the morons in the White House have not shown any connection between Saddam and Al Qaeda.

You are correct about one thing -- your examples are ridiculous, fitting or other wise. You might want to extend that to your logic.

[Gamblor]

Do you even read what I write?

I first asked, here, if the actions of rogue soldiers render the entire War in Iraq immoral.

You responded, here, "Yes."

I said, therefore, that if the actions of a few ruin the the morality of a movement, operation, or ideology, then by extension, if we accept that Osama bin Laden is evil, then all of Islam is evil. After all, the soldiers who committed those crimes weren't elected to run that prison, were they but they were acting on behalf of the American Army

Your response was: The operation we are judging, which has been tainted by the actions of the few, is the detention and management of the prisoners at the various institutions around Iraq.

I pointed out that we had different opinions of what the operation in question was: I believed that we were talking about the War in general, while you believed we were talking about the administration of the prisons.

Pretty straightforward if you think about it.

[Slacker13]

[ QUOTE ]
It was US forces that killed those people. Regardless, I am not British and have absolutely zero respect for the British army. Well, prehaps minimally more than the US army but that probably stands at less than zero.


[/ QUOTE ]

So we've now determined you despise both the US and British Armed Forces. I really hope the day doesn't come when you need to rely on the very people you hate.

Just for the record here I do not condone the killing of women and children (this will most likely be the only thing you and I will agree on), I have a 7 year old daughter and would die protecting her but if you think for one second the US and British forces are deliberately killing women and children your a damn fool.
Where were you when Suddam Hussein was killing women and children? When Suddams thugs were pulling innocent people out of their homes and torturing them, killing them, raping their wives & children. What a life they had, how dare we disrupt such a harmonious life.

[ACPlayer]

Well my dear child, if you notice in my response I took only one of the two parts of the "OR" in your statement and responded to that part of the OR.

The validity of the war has nothing to do with how stupid idiots behave on the front lines, nor with the atmosphere of Quantanamo type tactics that appear to have been sent down the line from the Pentagon. The validity of the war is judged independently of the outcome of the war or the method of its prosecution. Of course here the validity of the war is indefensible, except by head in the sand morons or by greedy, selfish jerks.