What's leads you to believe what you believe?

[David Sklansky]

"But most Christians DO NOT believe that an independendent evidence evaluator would rate their specific beliefs a favorite over the rest of the field combined."

"And you know this how?"

I'm only surmising from the posts on this site. Meanwhile what say you to BluffTHIS's post about calvinism?

[txag007]

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Are you saying that circumstantial evidence means NOTHING? I'm not saying you should take any one as a given, but even police detectives recognize that numerous occurances of circumstantial evidence is usually meaningful enough to pursue in an investigation and won't immediately dismiss them as you seem to be doing here.

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As you can see from my answers, I haven’t proved you wrong, but that’s because there isn’t any evidence there to disprove.

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I was trying to say that here to some extent. I didn't mean to say I could dismiss it totally, but there isn't really much to dismiss...

"But MATTHEW said...."

So what?

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What I've presented is circumstantial evidence. While it alone does not prove Christianity to be absolutely true, there is enough of it there to warrant further investigation.

Many of the dismissals in your earlier post are invalid. The fact that the story of the Resurrection is based on the testimony of women is an extremely important point. It really comes down to what you believe about the Resurrection. If you believe the story was just made up centuries after it allegedly occurred, as you have indicated, then why choose a witness who would not even be held in legal standing? It's a good question, is it not?

As for Jesus staking his entire ministry on His resurrection, this also comes down to what you believe about Jesus. It is verifiable from sources other than the Bible (and other than Christians and Jews for that matter) that Jesus lived, performed miracles, and claimed to be God. So if he was lying and just trying to set up a name for himself, why risk destroying it on a false prophesy?

I'm not dismissing your other rebuttals, but they basically come down to "Why should I believe the Bible?". Evidence for the truth of the Bible is something we can discuss next if you'd like.

Again, the evidence about the Resurrection is circumstantial. It does not, however, stand alone. Along with the evidence that the universe was created (presented earlier in this thread), there is evidence that the Bible is true. There is also evidence that the universe was designed, and if you are one of the ones questioning it, we can talk about evidence that Jesus actually existed.

Let me know.

We have reached a point where I need to do some research, or your quantity of information will seem to outweigh my logic. So a proper reply to that may take me a long time to do.

To quickly summarize my current position though, we agree that your evidence is circumstancial, and that is all I really showed when I went through it.

Someone pointed out that even police use circumstancial evidence; it isn't invalid.

I think there is a different process though.

Police find a dead body, then use circumstancial evidence against a culprit.

I think that you are finding circumstancial evidence, then infering a dead body you havn't found, then accusing a culprit. I hope that wouldn't stand up in court.

[txag007]

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"But most Christians DO NOT believe that an independendent evidence evaluator would rate their specific beliefs a favorite over the rest of the field combined."

"And you know this how?"

I'm only surmising from the posts on this site. Meanwhile what say you to BluffTHIS's post about calvinism?

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Posters on this site hardly account for "most" Christians.

As for Bluffthis, I hesitate to respond for fear I am speaking out of my comfort zone. I, however, do believe that God can make one's heart more open to His word. He can also harden your heart and make you less open as well.

That brings up an interesting point. If you seriously want to know about Christians and what makes us prone to believe, I challenge you to do two things. Get a Bible and pray. Pray to the God of Christians and ask him to speak to you through His word. Then, open your Bible and read. It doesn't matter where you start necessarily, although I would suggest anywhere in the New Testament.

I'm sure you'll laugh at this challenge, but if you do it you'll have an insider's perspective on us Christians. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[txag007]

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We have reached a point where I need to do some research, or your quantity of information will seem to outweigh my logic. So a proper reply to that may take me a long time to do.

To quickly summarize my current position though, we agree that your evidence is circumstancial, and that is all I really showed when I went through it.

Someone pointed out that even police use circumstancial evidence; it isn't invalid.

I think there is a different process though.

Police find a dead body, then use circumstancial evidence against a culprit.

I think that you are finding circumstancial evidence, then infering a dead body you havn't found, then accusing a culprit. I hope that wouldn't stand up in court.

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Hey, that's cool. I encourage you to research this. I'll look for your reply when you are ready. It might be better, though, to PM me. That way I'll be sure to see it.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Just playing devil's advocate to my own beliefs here, but what is the possibility that god does play favorites and that some people are just luckier (or more favored) and are shown the way--god communes with them and through them--while unlucky suckers such as myself are destined to wander alone through the pitiless universe?

Course, it just so happens that most people who claim god communes through them also happen to see Elvis's face in their Krispy Kreme donut. But still...maybe Elvis appears for them and not me...?

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some people are just luckier (or more favored) and are shown the way--god communes with them and through them--while unlucky suckers such as myself are destined to wander alone through the pitiless universe?

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Consider yourself lucky not to be chosen. If there is a god, I am quite content in my choice not to live as his servant. Life is far more interesting when you haven't been given the secret decoder ring.

I just noticed that you replied to my post, txa... and I missed it. A shame. I will reply now, though.

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I'll summarize your evidence: "We don't know how or where our universe came from... therefore, the Christian God of the Bible exists."

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Did I say "Christian God of the Bible" anywhere in my post? I would appreciate it if you wouldn't put words in my mouth. I was simply indicating the evidence for a Creator.

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The OP asked for evidence on why you believe. You are a Christian. You believe in the Christian God of the Bible. You used the term "God" (with a capital 'G') in your response. It is reasonable to assume by "God" that you mean the Christian God, especially since the OP was asking for evidence for what YOU believe. In the future, if you don't want someone to assume you mean the "Christian God", then please indicate that -- by saying "a god" or "a supreme being" or some such.


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I think it's a combo between #1 & #3. If by "universe", you mean our observable 4-dimensional (that we know of) "universe", then current understanding would say it could not have always existed. However, a multi-verse, a higher-level universe *could* have always existed.

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There is absolutely zero evidence for this.

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There is zero evidence for a god. My response was to your short-list of possiblie causes of the universe. Your list is incomplete, therefore your conclusion by the process of eliminating 2 of the 3 options, is irrational.