A quick question for college students about encouragment

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Grades speak louder than words.

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If they did, we wouldn't be having this debate.

[xorbie]

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Grades speak louder than words.

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If they did, we wouldn't be having this debate.

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Or maybe you are just wrong?

That's kinda like me saying (hypothetically) "Abortion is wrong" and you saying "If it was, we wouldn't be having this debate".

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Grades speak louder than words.

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If they did, we wouldn't be having this debate.

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Or maybe you are just wrong?

That's kinda like me saying (hypothetically) "Abortion is wrong" and you saying "If it was, we wouldn't be having this debate".

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Since everyone is focused on his words and not the grade, your analogy seems interesting.

Perhaps I am wrong- no one needs a teacher's written perspective on your work except the grade.

[jason_t]

Thanks for the comments so far. To make a few things clear.

I am the individual writing the note, not the student receiving the note. I was never in this position as a student and don't know how'd I'd react to what I wrote.

This is an extremely serious course for 3rd and 4th year students.

I really appreciate your comments concerning the tone and content of what I wanted to tell this student but I could use a few more suggestions as to what I could do, if anything, to help this student.

For those curious, this is an undergraduate course in complex analysis. We will study from an advanced perspective the theory of analytic functions of a single complex variable.

Thanks again. [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[xorbie]

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For those curious, this is an undergraduate course in complex analysis. We will study from an advanced perspective the theory of analytic functions of a single complex variable.

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Very cool stuff. Enjoyed it much when I took it last year. Btw, this is for high enough lvl people that I think a note is unnecessary, and that if someone managed to somehow get through whatever prereqs this class has (should at least have taken multivariable and some real analysis, right?) then they can go [censored] themselves if they are unable to determine what level of work will result in satisfactory (from their POV) grade.

I'm a bit confused, to be honest, as to why you would even think to do this. Is it not clear when the student gets his problem set and half the problems are wrong that he is not working to expectations? Or is it a problem of the students proofs/work not being rigorous/detailed enough?

If the latter, I think what would be a better play is just to come in to class and explain to the whole class that this is a high lvl course and that a high lvl of rigour is expected from the students. Perhaps walk them through one random problem from the problem set. That should be all. No need to hold hands, this student is an adult.

[jason_t]

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I'm a bit confused, to be honest, as to why you would even think to do this. Is it not clear when the student gets his problem set and half the problems are wrong that he is not working to expectations? Or is it a problem of the students proofs/work not being rigorous/detailed enough?

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I wanted to communicate with the student about this because I'm naively idealistic about students about learning and I care about what I do and as a result care for my students. The problem with this student's solution is that he treated the assignment as if it was from some lower-division calculus course rather than an upper-division course.

[ethan]

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I was never in this position as a student and don't know how'd I'd react to what I wrote.

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This was an interesting hypothetical for me, too. One thing I mentioned in my post that rory did as well was that you don't want to foster resentment - rather than setting yourself up as an adversary, you're trying to encourage your student while offering your help. I think the first note you posted might not have the desired effect.

I think chances are pretty good that offering your help will get the student to try harder on his own. If the student doesn't show any interest in improving, then it may well be time to start using the language in your original post. I'd also suggest that if/when you do use that language, you do it either in person or over email rather than writing it on the homework. I think the harsher message is one that benefits from the possibility of a dialogue with the student, and one's more likely to happen if you give him an easy chance to respond. If he gets the harsher message written on his homework, I think he's less likely to contact you than he might be to respond to an email.

This of course all depends on the student, and how capable he's going to be in motivating himself. He may just come to your office hours to ask "So, what's the answer for #1? Ok, how about #2?" (On a side note, it amazed me how many people tried this when I was tutoring. Even worse, I knew they were doing it because it'd worked for them in the past. I haven't taught in three years and thinking about it still annoys me.) But good luck with it.

[daryn]

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FYI - Jason is the teacher. He's asking if it's OK to give a student this note (see the XOXO - Jason, at the end of his letter).

I still wouldn't write it like that. It's phrased a bit harsh.

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i think it's perfect. especially since it's likely a math class. math, physics.. same thing,. boom, straight to the point. no BS.

[vulturesrow]

You might want to PM John Cole, as I am not sure if he reads OOT. He is a college prof and might have some insight for you.

[spamuell]

I'd be pretty pleased to receive a note like this. I feel teachers aren't really harsh enough, I think I should be intelligent enough to do any work that they set me and if they're trying to spare my feelings I wish they wouldn't. I think it would be quite motivating if someone was as honest as this in a note, I wouldn't feel insulted or take it personally and I would make the effort to improve in the next assignment.