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#61
09-22-2005, 11:45 PM
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Re: Sucker II
Just learn to control the dice and bet the pass line every time [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#63
09-30-2005, 04:14 AM
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Re: Taking odds at Craps
Just skimmed this thread and am really surprised by the thread. OK.....
I am going to bet $1000 a roll twenty times. Option A: I bet $1000 with no odds each time. Option B: I bet $100 with $900 odds each time. Which way does the house make more money from me? I'm surprised this discussion is occurring. Of course, whether one bets $100 with no odds or $100 with $900 behind, the amount that you lose per hand is the same. But that is a silly comparison when it comes to how people actually play. The valid comparison is the total amount you put in play each roll, and clearly the house has a greater edge in option A.
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#64
09-30-2005, 08:46 AM
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Re: Taking odds at Craps
Yes, this is correct. When you are in a situation where money MUST be wagered, as in the example with the gentleman looking to turn 25k into 100k, then it's of course best to make bets that have the lowest house advantage, which in the case of craps would be to bet as little as possible on the pass and then as much as possible on the odds bet.
However, the main debate in this thread was pretty much just confusion and misuse of the terms House Advantage and EV, applied in this situation to show that although making an odds bet lowers the overall house advantage of all of your total money wagered, it does not lower the EV, so you expect to lose the same in the long run.
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#65
10-01-2005, 07:20 AM
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Re: Taking odds at Craps
[ QUOTE ]
I am going to bet $1000 a roll twenty times. [/ QUOTE ] Regular gamblers do not have betting strategies. (Aside from "money managers", of course.) But read on. [ QUOTE ] Option A: I bet $1000 with no odds each time. Option B: I bet $100 with $900 odds each time. Which way does the house make more money from me? [/ QUOTE ] The house makes more money with option A. Read on. [ QUOTE ] Whether one bets $100 with no odds or $100 with $900 behind, the amount that you lose per hand is the same. But that is a silly comparison when it comes to how people actually play. [/ QUOTE ] Craps dealers are given instructions about how to entice Craps players to make bets. What do you think they are instructed to say, if they say anything, to a bettor who has $1000 on the Pass line? Option A : "The smart gambler would also take Odds." Option B : "The smart gambler would take $900 out of the Pass line bet and take Odds with 'em."
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#66
10-01-2005, 10:49 AM
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Re: Taking odds at Craps
[ QUOTE ]
Craps dealers are given instructions about how to entice Craps players to make bets. What do you think they are instructed to say, if they say anything, to a bettor who has $1000 on the Pass line? Option A : "The smart gambler would also take Odds." Option B : "The smart gambler would take $900 out of the Pass line bet and take Odds with 'em." [/ QUOTE ] Option C : Coming out - "C&E, Horn Bets, Hi-Lo This Roll ..." Point 4/6/8/10 - "Would you like a hard way with that?" Point 5- "Would you like to place the 9?" Point 9- "Would you like to place the 5?" All Points- "Can I get a waitress for you?"
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#67
10-02-2005, 07:21 AM
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Re: Taking odds at Craps
What you said:
[ QUOTE ] Taking odds at crap does not change the house advantage, either in percentage terms or in dollar terms. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] In sum, when you go to the Craps table and want to bet $100 on the Pass line, but then decide instead to bet $10 on Pass and take $90 Odds, you are not gonna lower the house advantage, you are just gonna lower your Pass line bet! [/ QUOTE ] If I decide to bet 10/90 instead of 100/0, the house makes less money off of me.
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#68
10-02-2005, 07:24 AM
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Re: Taking odds at Craps
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I am going to bet $1000 a roll twenty times. [/ QUOTE ] Regular gamblers do not have betting strategies. [/ QUOTE ] Huh? Everyone I know who gambles regularly for fun has some type of betting strategy. Bet the same every hand, let it ride, bet one chip more every time you win, something. [ QUOTE ] Craps dealers are given instructions about how to entice Craps players to make bets. What do you think they are instructed to say, if they say anything, to a bettor who has $1000 on the Pass line? Option A : "The smart gambler would also take Odds." Option B : "The smart gambler would take $900 out of the Pass line bet and take Odds with 'em." [/ QUOTE ] Uh, you are agreeing with my point. In your initial post you said the house advantage is not lowered in % or dollar terms. But it is lowered in dollar terms when you switch up the bet like that, which is why they don't suggest it. I think you've successfully argued against your initial point here.
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#69
10-02-2005, 08:54 AM
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Off the bus
[ QUOTE ]
"Regular gamblers do not have betting strategies." Everyone I know who gambles regularly for fun has some type of betting strategy. Bet the same every hand, let it ride, bet one chip more every time you win, something. [/ QUOTE ] Yep, that's right. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] Seriously, a tourist is more prone to be inconsistent even to his personal betting "strategy" than an AP. The tourist is more prone to increase his bet size by taking an additional bet on the Odds and thus "acting smartly", i.e. lowering the HA... [ QUOTE ] In your initial post you said the house advantage is not lowered in % or dollar terms. But it is lowered in dollar terms when you switch up the bet like that, which is why they don't suggest it. I think you've successfully argued against your initial point here. [/ QUOTE ] I thought I made it clear that the HA is not changed either in percentage terms or in dollar terms in the original Pass line bet. But I guess that the original points has been lost a long time ago so this better be my last post in this thread. It was meant to be as a small warning. I put it up when I saw for the umpteenth time on the web the crap about "lowering the HA on craps". Serves me right.
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#70
10-02-2005, 03:14 PM
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Re: Off the bus
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] "Regular gamblers do not have betting strategies." Everyone I know who gambles regularly for fun has some type of betting strategy. Bet the same every hand, let it ride, bet one chip more every time you win, something. [/ QUOTE ] Yep, that's right. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] Seriously, a tourist is more prone to be inconsistent even to his personal betting "strategy" than an AP. The tourist is more prone to increase his bet size by taking an additional bet on the Odds and thus "acting smartly", i.e. lowering the HA... [ QUOTE ] In your initial post you said the house advantage is not lowered in % or dollar terms. But it is lowered in dollar terms when you switch up the bet like that, which is why they don't suggest it. I think you've successfully argued against your initial point here. [/ QUOTE ] I thought I made it clear that the HA is not changed either in percentage terms or in dollar terms in the original Pass line bet. But I guess that the original points has been lost a long time ago so this better be my last post in this thread. It was meant to be as a small warning. I put it up when I saw for the umpteenth time on the web the crap about "lowering the HA on craps". Serves me right. [/ QUOTE ] Here is where I think we differ in opinion. We agree on the mathematics in play here. But we differ in how we think recreational gamblers (like me) play craps. My experience is that people bet an "amount" at craps. That "amount" is the total amount of money at play, more or less. Someone who wants to have $100 riding might put it on the pass line. If they want to take odds, they will play that same $100 as $20/$80, not put $400 behind the $100. So, given this assumption, taking odds does indeed lower the house advantage. Another way of saying that is once someone has taken odds at craps for the first time, they stop thinking about the pass line as their bet and think of "pass + odds" as their bet.
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