World Class Player Reveals Secrets

[ClaytonN]

[ QUOTE ]
10 bucks says he never posts here again (under that name).

[/ QUOTE ]

Woulda been nice if Fletch was my gimmick account, then I'd rape you of your precious ten dollars [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[MicroBob]

(didn't read the whole silly thread of course)


[ QUOTE ]
playing four 15-30 games or now four 30-60 or 50-100 games I should be able to make between 100K and 300K a year, but it just ain't happenin.

[/ QUOTE ]



sorry to hear that you're not as good at poker as you previously thought you were. must be awfully painful to come to that conclusion after 30+ years of playing live and thinking you were REALLY good.
don't worry about it...you're probably still better than average...so there's no need to go into denial about how unbeatable the online games are or anything like that.


seriously, for the appropriately bankrolled player the online 15/30, 20/40 and 30/60 games are absolutely crushable.
This, of course, assumes that you aren't playing some old-fashioned, ultra-weak-tight style that is rather popular amongst long-time, old-fogey B&M players.


FWIW - Posters on these forums have talked about how utterly crushable the California 20/40 and up games are and how similar they are to a party 3/6 game much of the time.

I just got back from Vegas and had little trouble beating up on the Bellagio 15/30 games. Found them to be quite crushable with mucho weak competition. This was a very small sample though so my results are somewhat meaningless....my opinion on the quality of opposition I faced is not.

[jman220]

Actually, the only thing in your post that is probably correct is your assertion that 90 percent of the posters on 2+2 can't be long term winners online. You're right, and the actual number is almost certainly lower than that, probably much lower. However, based on your post, I might venture a guess that the number of 2+2'ers who are better than you at poker may be approaching 90 percent.

[beernutz]

[ QUOTE ]
fletcher,

since you said you played with me and regularly beat the high stakes casino games it is almost certain i will remember you or know about you. so PM me your real name. i will not post it but will give credence to your claim of being a wcp if you are. if you are not i will not embarass you by saying so.

but i can assure you the wcp that i know are beating the online games at the major sites for the kind of money expected of them.

i cannot believe any wcp player would lose over many hours at 15, 30. unless he isnt good enough to adjust to the different game play on the screen. it is not fixed.

your move my friend.

zee

[/ QUOTE ]

Game. Set. Match.

[lefty rosen]

The only thing I can say in his defense is that he is tilting when he hits a flat spot with bad beats. Party does have a strange random number generator. You can almost see when your Ak will lose to some donkey cold call two off suited brick cards. But that isn't why you have a miniscule win rate. The party highstakes games aren't truly world class. If you argued you couldnt beat the Stars 100/200 then I would say maybe you were above your head, but the party games aren't tougher than the average 20/40 game in my city...

[Cosimo]

[ QUOTE ]
First of all, many of you missed the point. How could a world class player not adjust? Being able to adjust is what world class play is all about. ...

[/ QUOTE ]

1) You contend that you are a WCP.
2) You contend that you can adjust to different game types.
3) You're not making money at the online 15-30+ games.
4) Many posters here are. (Note that 'many' means dozens. Most of us aren't playing 15-30.)

Therefore, 1) or 2) is suspect. It could be #3: if you haven't put in many hours, it's quite likely that you've just had a bad run.

This community, of course, trusts its own gurus. Those gurus have made thousands of strategy posts and have demonstrated their winrate at the high limits. Due to a desire for anonymity, their info isn't public, though. If you're truly curious, I suggest trying to talk to them in person the next time you're near their haunts.

[ QUOTE ]
However, I can't seem to make any money playing online. And I don't mean pin money either. I'm sure a lot of you are grinding out between 15 and 30 thousand a year, which is fine, if you're living at home and mommy and daddy are footing all the bills.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that what you really think? There are posters here making over $100k a year. Most of us are hobbyists. I'll probably only make about $20k this year, but that's because I play the .5-1 and 1-2 games for twenty-ish hours a week. The guys playing 3-6, 5-10, and up will be making signifigantly more, of course, and especially those that are multi-tabling 15-30 full-time.

Maybe you don't believe all this. Take a look around, for example in the Mid-, High-Stakes forum. Check out the David Ross Experience or search for information on his well-documented run. Maybe you'll run across stories of bicyclekick or other 2+2ers with colorful histories. Generally the guys making serious dough aren't here talking about it, though; they're either out makin' it or spendin' it.

[ QUOTE ]
As I said in my first post, the players online are atrocious, yet I don't seem to be killing the games as I should be.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many hands have you played? Generally these forums are really rude to newcomers that haven't figured that poker is a high-variance game, so that's probably what you're seeing. Results under 10,000 hands are only useful for PFR and VP$IP. It'll take 20,000 or more before you can be confidently ahead, and 100,000 or more before you get a fix on your real winrate.

[ QUOTE ]
If the players are very bad, and I am very good shouldn't I be making a lot of money? The answer of course is yes, but I'm not. What does this tell you?

[/ QUOTE ]

You seem to be implying that the games are rigged. Go on, say it. We'll call BS and we can move on with this discussion. But before you do that, you might want to take a look around at even the micro limit players and see how much they're taknig home. Consistently. For years.

[ QUOTE ]
That I don't know how to adjust, LOL. Give me a [censored] break! That's what WCPs are best at, adjusting.

[/ QUOTE ]

What else are we supposed to believe? If you think the sites are rigged, say so. If you don't think anyone is making money at this, take a look around. There's ample evidence here that tons of 2+2 posters are crushing the games.

[ QUOTE ]
No, something else is going on. I have no idea what, but something. Put another way, if I can't beat it for good money then I doubt many can. They might say they are, but I have serious doubts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fine, fine. If you doubt that people are making money online, start browsing the archives of the General Texas HE forum; you'll find the most results posts there.

[ QUOTE ]
But ya'll do beat it and beat it good, so I'm talking to the wrong people I guess. The people I really want to talk to aren't those of you making 25K a year but those of you making 150K a year--and not just for one year (and excluding tournaments) but for at least three years. I'll bet there aren't many (if any) doing that well. But if you're out there feel free to chime in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, those guys are rare. We're not all crushing 15-30. I'm here so that I can get there, and along the way I've picked up an idea of what's possible. There are over 80,000 people on Party right now; I think chances are, most of those guys are [censored] FISH. If you can't take their money, then it's either (A) variance, or (B) you.

EDIT: \o/ post #666

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Party does have a strange random number generator.

[/ QUOTE ]



ummmmmm???

do not pass go. do not collect $200.

[siccjay]

[ QUOTE ]
Party does have a strange random number generator.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can there be a strange RANDOM # generator?

[ QUOTE ]
You can almost see when your Ak will lose to some donkey cold call two off suited brick cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes because AK is such a huge favorite vs any two live cards!!

[MMMMMM]

Yes, a good number of 2+2ers are doing very well online.

However, the overall impression just from reading posts may be misleading, because it is likely that many who did well then later did poorly never posted their mediocre or bad results.

So while it is true that many are doing well, it is also likely true (in my opinion) that there is a bias inherent in the selective nature of reportage in many cases, which tilts the overall impression gained from reading posts to a more positive aspect than is warranted.

[MicroBob]

on a more important note:


should I pronounce your name as one long 'mmmmmmmmm' or should it be 'Em-Em-Em-Em-Em-Em'?

if it's the former 'mmmmmmm' then is it like a choir-singer warming up their vocal chords type of 'mmmmmm' or is it more like a porno woman just getting started?


How would you introduce yourself to a fellow 2+2'er if you were to meet in person?