Don't Use Prophecy!

I myself liked Poker Prohecy. I think it was an easy way to help me in the early stages of the game and also on blind steals, I usually stole from higher percentage players. However, I did get the email from Party Poker and I have deleted the program. In the email they said that they would even do screen scrapings , what that is I have no idea. I won't be using any other software, it's just not worth losing your money over.

[citanul]

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I myself liked Poker Prohecy. I think it was an easy way to help me in the early stages of the game and also on blind steals, I usually stole from higher percentage players. However, I did get the email from Party Poker and I have deleted the program. In the email they said that they would even do screen scrapings , what that is I have no idea. I won't be using any other software, it's just not worth losing your money over.

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welcome to the forum!

I'm glad you were able to get some use from the software, and even gladder that you have done the intelligent thing and removed it when Party told you to.

A screen scraping basically means that they will take a picture of what is going on on your computer, and send it back to home so they can look at it. Alternatively, a piece of software that has a "screen scraping" functionality could be one that reads information off the screen and then processes it. So a thing that read your cards, or opponents, off the screen and then did something with that information would be an example of this. (I don't know if the new prophecy software with overlay did this, or if it still required hand entry of the data.) But Party Poker is very very against such screen scraping by other people, so they take screen scrapes themselves to protect against it.

citanul

[eastbay]

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The first email said basically "there's nothing new about datamining, but the spamming and such is worrisome, i'll forward on to supervisor."

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ding ding ding ding ding ding ding

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AND?!?

eastbay

[citanul]

Wanted to give you all an update from Stars since I just heard back from them again:

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Hello,

I've looked at this site's offering, and I agree with you that the data
he's selling is mostly worthless and shouldn't be feared. He's simply
walking the list of Sit and Go events to find out who won. The results
often have nothing to do with skill (though longer term they will) -- he's
just making very general assumptions based upon a player's finishes,
without regards to the cards.

Not to be a fearmonger, but we're far more concerned with the likes of
http://www.pokeredge.com or http://members.cox.net/starspy, both of which
track far more comprehensive statistics hand by hand.

In any case, we're well aware of the fears of players regarding
datamining. A certain amount of profiling will simply have to be a part
of online poker (such as offered by PokerTracker.com in concert with
GameTime+, or via PokerOffice.com). Profiling of players that *you* have
played against personally is one thing, and we're unlikely to prohibit
that. (It sounds like we're on the same page on that issue). Mass
datamining and aggregating of data is something else entirely, and we are
always looking ahead and formulating plans on how to best deal with such
programs should they migrate to PokerStars.

Thanks for your feedback and for giving us a heads up on this guy. We'll
be ready for him.

Best Regards,

Jeff
PokerStars Support Supervisor

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Well, hopefully this is all good news, and hopefully Stars will in fact be ready for him. I never play sngs there, so others will be the only ones to know I guess. The support team didn't really seem to absorb the fact that while the data this guy sells is just a large set of datamining, it's also wildly inaccurate, etc. They probably don't care that much about that, but whatever.

citanul

[HesseJam]

OK, so I use PT + GT+ for ring games. And I like it because I can see quickly when the tables deteriorate and move some place else. Sometimes it helps for my opponent specific play. But only because I like to 4-table and I do not like to use the notes. If they banned it today I would gladly give them up and not lose very much. I never datamined because at the lower levels it's just not worth it to me.

PE and Poker Prophecy should be banned IMO, because once the data quality and their functionality gets better these programs represent an unfair advantage and almost force you to use them if you want to keep up at the higher levels. I would seriously consider to move to another site if I felt an impact from these programs (my BB/100 or ROI going down). So far this is not the case.

I support that Party and Stars are looking into the matter and are taking action. Makes me feel better.

And yes, they are doing screen shots! They did those in January when they started to crack down on WinHoldem (bot program).

As for the argument that they drive away their best customers because these are paying more rake, I consider this argument flawed. Poker sites need a constant influx of new (bad) players and need to retain not only the good but also the bad players. The bad players are losing to the good ones providing an incentive for them to keep playing. If the software issue becomes known to new and bad players they might be scared away. If a site like Party loses the bad players they will also lose the good ones eventually. The bad players (their money coming in) are the drivers of the online poker industry. The sites just share this money with the good players. So, who would you rather lose, a giver or a taker?

[daveymck]

[ QUOTE ]
Wanted to give you all an update from Stars since I just heard back from them again:

[ QUOTE ]
Hello,

I've looked at this site's offering, and I agree with you that the data
he's selling is mostly worthless and shouldn't be feared. He's simply
walking the list of Sit and Go events to find out who won. The results
often have nothing to do with skill (though longer term they will) -- he's
just making very general assumptions based upon a player's finishes,
without regards to the cards.

Not to be a fearmonger, but we're far more concerned with the likes of
http://www.pokeredge.com or http://members.cox.net/starspy, both of which
track far more comprehensive statistics hand by hand.

In any case, we're well aware of the fears of players regarding
datamining. A certain amount of profiling will simply have to be a part
of online poker (such as offered by PokerTracker.com in concert with
GameTime+, or via PokerOffice.com). Profiling of players that *you* have
played against personally is one thing, and we're unlikely to prohibit
that. (It sounds like we're on the same page on that issue). Mass
datamining and aggregating of data is something else entirely, and we are
always looking ahead and formulating plans on how to best deal with such
programs should they migrate to PokerStars.

Thanks for your feedback and for giving us a heads up on this guy. We'll
be ready for him.

Best Regards,

Jeff
PokerStars Support Supervisor

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, hopefully this is all good news, and hopefully Stars will in fact be ready for him. I never play sngs there, so others will be the only ones to know I guess. The support team didn't really seem to absorb the fact that while the data this guy sells is just a large set of datamining, it's also wildly inaccurate, etc. They probably don't care that much about that, but whatever.

citanul

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The best thing about that mail was the support guy was intelligent and aware of the issues and the difference in the various software offerings and gave a answer we can understand.

If only party would outsource their support to Pokerstars.

[stupidsucker]

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The first email said basically "there's nothing new about datamining, but the spamming and such is worrisome, i'll forward on to supervisor."

[/ QUOTE ]


ding ding ding ding ding ding ding

[/ QUOTE ]

AND?!?

eastbay

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I believe that it is the spamming they are most concerned with. Enough people complain about that, so they fix the problem at the root. I could be wrong, because I've never seen poker edge spam, only Popro.

[Ricky Slade]

Seriously, All Prophecy provides is simple information like #sngs at certain dollar levels, % of these time finished ITM. This is all PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE!

It does not tell you how an opponent plays AK in UTG+1 and it doesn't tell you how to play pocket jacks in the BB preflop in a reraised pot.

If you want to argue on how accurate this public information they provide is, fine. But it gives no play advantage edge over an opponent. I never bought, I did try the 5 free tries on their site, while some what interestingly entertaining it did not help me.
I am sure that the poker prophecy people are not secret spies from the evil empire sent here to destroy us all

[45suited]

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I am sure that the poker prophecy people are not secret spies from the evil empire sent here to destroy us all

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Nope, just lying snake oil salesman who spam the tables at PP.

[citanul]

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I am sure that the poker prophecy people are not secret spies from the evil empire sent here to destroy us all

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Nope, just lying snake oil salesman who spam the tables at PP.

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bingo, and really, i haven't said i don't think that they are anything worse than that. i have said that if i could snap my fingers and make them all go away (preferably in a painful and costly way) i would do that. i don't need any more reason than the above stated to hate them.

citanul