Anything in particular I am doing wrong in 30/60?

[lil feller]

Thats like saying that 100% of your value bets should get called when you have a better hand, as long as you aren't checking with the best hand. Ever. Thanks for the insightful response.

lf

[tpir90036]

Duly noted... but my stats say i am waaaay tighter than any other good 2+2 player I have ever seen. Which is not to say that I am good... because I don't think that I am. Just curious if that is where my extra BB/100 is going.

[DcifrThs]

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because:

1) you get better by beating the bigger games.

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You certainly improve/alter your skill set by beating tougher games. Bigger doesn't always mean tougher, but in this instance it sounds like it does.

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2) if you can beat them for the same rate you're winning 2x the $/whatever

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If the game is really that much tougher then the 15, I see it nearly impossible to keep the same winrate. Am I wrong here?

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3) by your logic, nobody would play tougher games

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By my logic nobody serious about maximizing their BB/hour (or 100 or whatever) SHOULD play in tougher games if it will hurt their bottom line. Not all of us here play for money, some play for pride, ego, fun, whatever. For them moving up is logical, even it they have to sacrifice some profit.

For me, its all about maximizing the bottom line, and if the 30 game really is that much tougher I wonder if most people wouldn't do better just staying in the 15. I suppose if you were a 1bb/100 winner in the 15, you'd only need to be a .51bb/100 winner in the 30 for moving up to be the right play, but BK seems to think that a 1bb/100 player would break even in the 30 game, is that inaccurate based on your experience?

lf

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my experience is beating the 15 game and now beating the 30game for more bb/100 than i did the 15...i have 42k hands at 15 and 45k hands at 30 and my bb/100 at 30 is 15% higher... it takes some adjustment and a 1bb/100 winner at 15 will likely be break even or a loser at 30 until he/she learns the new game and new opponents.

now game selection is just as important since there are 42 tables at my last count.

can't really explain why my bb/100 is 15% higher at 30/60 than 15/30 but maybe that type of game just fits my style better...maybe its a luck factor thing...maybe its a bit of both or a third/fourth thing i didn't consider...

who knows...either way you will cost yourself $$ by moving up...but it may be worth it in the long run...its all about how you handle learning curves and big swings...

-Barron

[roy_miami]

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Why anybody would voluntarily play in a game that tough, when you have a ka-zillion soft games just one step below just baffels me.


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I don't play party too often, but is this still the case? Will all the very bad players migrate to 30/60 becuase they won't have to wait anymore? Are the 15 games still as good as ever or have all the idiots gone for the big money?

I did play in a 15 game for about an hour last night that was ridiculously good (very loose and aggressive anyway). I suspect the 30 games will turn into the old 15 games and the 15 games will be rock gardens.

[bicyclekick]

The 30 games are definately tough. I'm gonna be experimenting over the next bit to see where I'll end up...and it'll likely be the 30 game, but it could well be the 15 game if it's better. I also would like more tough-game experiance and the 30 gives a good dose of that...dont' get me wrong, there is still a bunch of bad players, but far less than 15/30

[Schneids]

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Are you telling him this just to be kind or to keep him playing? Anyone who swings down 16K playing 30/60 is almost certainly NOT a winning player

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Nonsense. Now whether smurph is a winning player or not I do not know but this statement is simply ridiculous.

-ActionBob

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Someone just starts playing 30/60, and immediately finds himself down 16K. I think any kind of statistical analysis of variance will reject the hypothesis that he is a winning player by a wide margin.
It's not like he's been beating the game for years and has now run into a real bad streak. The odds that he's hitting that once in a lifetime streak just as he's starting is almost negligible. I think it is more than reasonable to conclude that he's not beating this game. Any talk of 'normal' variance is just preventing him from doing what he needs to to improve his game.

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For what it's worth my record in Party 15/30 is something like -$11,000 in somewhere between 12,000-16,000 hands (and it'll probably remain like that since I will probably never play in that game again). I'm someone that has killed Party 10/20 6max for a long, long time. I'm someone that has a very credible record in games 30/60 or higher online over a large sample size (and with a higher WR in full games than short handed at these limits such as 50/100 and 100/200... just saying to negate a potential argument that I suck at full table).

While unlikely this guy is a winner given it's his first shot in this game, it's also possible he's running piss awful. I gotta admit I was playing a lot better than my Party 15/30 record indicates.

[tpir90036]

Two nights ago a couple of the players on my 15 clown list were playing the 30. Last night half of them were. Tonight all of them were. Granted, my sample size is small....and there are still great games to be found at the 15...but I would imagine my clown list is just a microcosm of what is going on.

Put antoher way, I hear the band warming up in preparation of playing a death knell. Although I might be exaggerating a bit because I am drunk. It's difficult to know at this point.

-tpir

[Senor Choppy]

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my experience is beating the 15 game and now beating the 30game for more bb/100 than i did the 15...i have 42k hands at 15 and 45k hands at 30 and my bb/100 at 30 is 15% higher... it takes some adjustment and a 1bb/100 winner at 15 will likely be break even or a loser at 30 until he/she learns the new game and new opponents.

can't really explain why my bb/100 is 15% higher at 30/60 than 15/30 but maybe that type of game just fits my style better...maybe its a luck factor thing...maybe its a bit of both or a third/fourth thing i didn't consider...

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You've played less than 50k hands at each, you have no idea what your actual win rate is. I thought you had a background in statistics?

[pfkaok]

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I suspect the 30 games will turn into the old 15 games and the 15 games will be rock gardens.


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I certainly hope this is true, but do these bad players really have that much money that they can start losing twice as much by playing 30/60?

[twowords]

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I also would like to mention that the party 30/60 is SIGNIFICANTLY harder than the 15/30.

1bb/100 winners at the 15/30 would be breakeven at best in the 30 imo.

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My stats beg to differ.

15-30:
BB/100 - 0.55
Total Hands - 30,246

30-60:
BB/100 - 18.68
Total Hands - 135

I may just be running well though.