Another Question For Christians

[jonnyv]

I believe that religion is a very personal thing. Growing up as a roman catholic and attending catholic school through highschool I feel that the bottom line is that if you accept jesus the son of God as our savior and you ask for forgiveness you will go to heavan. I feel that those who believe in God will also go to heaven if they truely believe. I can tell you that I have seen very evil men in their final moments before death with a look of horror on their face as they took their final breathe. The feeling in the room was rather scary and I felt an evil presence. I work with some of the worst offenders soicity has to offer.

[anacrime]

People like Sklansky believe there is nothing above them. Therefore, there must be no God. Overly intelligent people have too much pride and confidence in themselves to accept that their is something higher then they are.

[David Sklansky]

"People like Sklansky believe there is nothing above them. Therefore, there must be no God. Overly intelligent people have too much pride and confidence in themselves to accept that their is something higher then they are."

It is very important that people understand the untruthfullness of the above. Most highly intelligent people believe it is very likely that there are far more intelligent beings elswhere in the universe. The reason they do not believe in the God of organized religions is because an intelligent analysis of the evidence leads to the conclusion that these religions are almost certainly wrong. It has nothing to do with pride.

["spaceman"Bryce]

Whast proof you talkin bout? JESUS DIED FOR YOU!

Nice finish in the wpt David.

[wdeadwyler]

This is gonna start a huge flame war, but I personally believe the idea of God and punishment to be really silly. It doesn't make sense that God would always be punishing us. The whole idea of eternal hell is (in my mind) just some made up idea to scare the faithless into converting into Christianity. Think about it logically (somewhat a moot issue, since God defes logic, but still, my argument makes sense). If there is God, then surely, by definition, he is perfect. If this is the case, he would know human beings like the back of his hand. Which means he would know we have the propensity for "evil". So, if he already knows we are evil, why does he ETERNALLY damn us for mistakes we make in our MORTAL lives. We are limited. God is not. It doesn't make sense for him to hold us up to his standard. I think the whole idea of eternal hell is logically and spiritually bullshit.
A) God already knows what we will do so why allow us to live and THEN damn us forever
B) God is infinite and eternal. We are finite and mortal. It does not make sense to impose inifinite and eternal
punishment for finite and mortal mistakes.

That is a basic reiteration of my two main points. Sorry this post (like all of mine) is so haphazard and hard to read.

[jordanx]

"Highly intelligent people have too much pride and confidence to accept that there is something higher then them"

If Albert Einstien was highly intelligent and Albert Einstien believed in God...
then highly intelligent people are not too prideful to believe in something higher than them.

He was highly intelligent and he believed in God therefore...

[Zeno]

[ QUOTE ]
It has nothing to do with pride.

[/ QUOTE ]

But ridding this misconception and ever-popular prejudice from the public mind is probably impossible. In fact, you are just setting yourself up for additional ridicule, invective, and abuse - All unwarranted but nonetheless coming your way.

Not unexpected either, I would surmise.

-Zeno

[Shakezula]

rather than continue along the arguments and discussions posed by the others who have responded, i would return to the original question: will there be punishment meted out to those who do not pray to a god or god-like being?

granted that evolution is a given among scientific circles, applying this concept to religious thought, even the idea of punishment from a god demands evolving. certainly from reading the material of christianity, we can see that punishment is no longer the given dictum of the words of christ and his teachings; the later material that comprises their holy bible runs in direct conflict with the earlier ideas of a vengeful god and his wrath: the figure-head of christ professed that forgiveness is the idea, that we should forgive our enemies and those who offend us. it would follow that if---IF---a god existed, that he/she/it would also forgive. a nice "out" if there ever was one: our shortcomings and failures are forgiven, so there should be no concern about our actions.

on a side note, certain key ideas present within their books were never expanded or evolved: "if thou can believe, all things are possible to him that believeth"; "the kingdom of god cannot be seen objectively"; and my favorite, "is it not written ye are gods?"

if one believes or insists that punishment must come, then one will experience it. shades of karma perhaps?

if the "kingdom" is not objective, then subjectively the answers can be found. thus, the answers come from within...one's own interpretation or world-view or belief-system.

are we gods? we have skills, abilities, and talents that await expression and/or development. we also create memes, and then give THEM the power to verify themselves. we create those self-generating and self-fulfilling concepts from our own minds.

so the idea of punishment from a god can be considered a meme. if we believe it to be true, then the meme, of punishment from a god, then proves itself.

[frogjerk]

"The reason they do not believe in the God of organized religions is because an intelligent analysis of the evidence leads to the conclusion that these religions are almost certainly wrong. It has nothing to do with pride."

Can you point me to this intelligent analysis?

[Shakezula]

frog, he means that under the scrutiny of the reasoning mind, no facts can be found to support the existence of an objective god. the suppositions of such a being's existence rely on ideas of faith and personal belief, or "leaps" of thought, and that these have no observable proof.

perhaps scientific thought needs to return to the evidence of the private experience of the individual, but then religious sentiment would also need a dose of intelligent objectivity.