Did Manning make any difference on the Colts team at all this season?

[DMBFan23]

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You underestimate just how much of an impact a QB has on the team. Even Jerry Rice in his prime would add less value than the top QB in the league.

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maybe not more value than the top QB, but this definitely goes both ways. look at how much better donovan's passing stats were with TO. and look at the impact that Randy Moss has on an offense.

Conversely, Peyton and that system have the ability to turn Brandon Stokley and Reggie Wayne into 1000 yard recievers.

I love how everyone (commentators especially) acts like the QB magically wills his team to victory. there are a shitload of other guys involved, 11-15 of which the QB has virtually NO influence over (the defense, kicker, etc) other than to not leave his them in shitty field position. I don't get how announcers can say "defense wins championships" and then in the next sentence say "OMG TOM BRADY HAS SIMPLY WILLED THIS TEAM TO VICTORY HOW AMAZING OMG I WANT TO HAVE HIS BABY AND THEN LICK HIS GRUNDEL"

I hate Tom Brady.

[apd138]

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It's pretty hard to overhype Tom Brady's value, he is easily a top 5 valuable player.


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Completely disagree.

10 players I'd take before Brady
Manning-yes
Culpepper-push
McNabb-push
Holmes-running backs are cheap look at denver they have to beat them off with sticks
Moss-hahahaha ha
Owens-can't see a wide out over a qb but if there was one he would be it
Tomlinson-see above
Harrison-peyton manning factor
Ray Lewis-too old to take over brady not even best defender on own team
Alexander see above

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[droolie]

Tom Brady is underrated. Until he is consistently mentioned in the top 3 players in the league this will continue to be the case. Very few people have him as the MVP of the league yet if they had to win just one game they would choose him. Does this make any sense?

Brady won two superbowls with Antoine Smith as his #1 running back, no receiver over 6' tall and basically no tight end. His decision making, pocket presence and throwing accuracy are HOF caliber. He is at his best when the stakes are highest. He does not rely on physical gifts such as speed or arm strength that could easily deteriorate over time. He is young and still improving but has incredible playoff experience with no lingering baggage to overcome. He is by acclimation the hardest working member of his lengendarily hard working team and yet does not need or demand attention. He is the epitome of a team player who has one of the greatest records a starting QB has ever had.

The only reason why he is not considered the league MVP and the #1 player in the league is his lack of gaudy stats and the fact that Belicheck gets all the credit for his teams success. The fact that some of you would choose a WR over Tom Brady is hilarious. I can hear an argument for preferring some of the other top QB's (especially Manning who has no D on his team) as being superior players but a WR c'mon! What did TO do for SF last year? People just don't seem to understand that the player who touches the ball every play and can potentially give the ball to the other team on every play if they make poor choices are by definition the most valuable players in the league.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

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Tom Brady is underrated.

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You misunderstand the meaning of underrated. All you ever hear is how great he is and has he played long enough to be a lock for Canton. It's impossible to be underrated under these circumstances - if anything you can only be overrated (not saying he's overrated).

[Drac]

Tom Brady is a perfect fit for that system. Put him in Indy and the Colts win fewer games in the regular season and don't do squat in the playoffs. Brady has the one key thing Manning doesn't...a defense that doesn't suck. Brady rarely wins games but it's even more rare that he loses them which is why he is perfect for New England.

As to Manning never winning a big game...how about going to KC and knocking them off last year when he had to be PERFECT because his defense was so terrible and he was just that...perfect. KC is one of the toughest places to play in the league and he got the job done there. The next game he was awful, no doubt about it. This year in NE he wasn't awful but they couldn't run the ball and you couldn't stretch the defense with that weather and that killed their chances. Was he great that game? No. He sure as heck didn't lose that game either. Until Indy developes at least an average defense they are doomed in the playoffs UNLESS they can get home field throughout...then they have a shot inside on the turf to outscore people.

[Drac]

[ QUOTE ]
Tom Brady is underrated. Until he is consistently mentioned in the top 3 players in the league this will continue to be the case. Very few people have him as the MVP of the league yet if they had to win just one game they would choose him. Does this make any sense?

Brady won two superbowls with Antoine Smith as his #1 running back, no receiver over 6' tall and basically no tight end. His decision making, pocket presence and throwing accuracy are HOF caliber. He is at his best when the stakes are highest. He does not rely on physical gifts such as speed or arm strength that could easily deteriorate over time. He is young and still improving but has incredible playoff experience with no lingering baggage to overcome. He is by acclimation the hardest working member of his lengendarily hard working team and yet does not need or demand attention. He is the epitome of a team player who has one of the greatest records a starting QB has ever had.

The only reason why he is not considered the league MVP and the #1 player in the league is his lack of gaudy stats and the fact that Belicheck gets all the credit for his teams success. The fact that some of you would choose a WR over Tom Brady is hilarious. I can hear an argument for preferring some of the other top QB's (especially Manning who has no D on his team) as being superior players but a WR c'mon! What did TO do for SF last year? People just don't seem to understand that the player who touches the ball every play and can potentially give the ball to the other team on every play if they make poor choices are by definition the most valuable players in the league.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no way in hell Brady is one of the top 3 players in the league. Pick a good offensive team with a crappy D (Vikes, Colts, Packers) and stick Brady in for their QB's. Do you think they're a better team now? No way. The people in NE that don't get enough credit are on the other side of the ball. I've heard tons of talk about Brady being a lock for Canton...how can you be underrated if they say you're a lock for the HOF? Particularly when there are a handful of QB's every year that he's been in the league that are clearly superior to him. Brady is what he is...not a league MVP caliber player because he just isn't that good. He is great at what the Pats need him for and deserves a lot of credit for what he's done. He and Beligod still get more credit than they deserve while the D doesn't get enough and their O line does a pretty nice job too. For a sport that requires so many guys to play well for a team to win Brady gets more than enough credit.

[droolie]

[ QUOTE ]


There is no way in hell Brady is one of the top 3 players in the league. Pick a good offensive team with a crappy D (Vikes, Colts, Packers) and stick Brady in for their QB's. Do you think they're a better team now? No way. The people in NE that don't get enough credit are on the other side of the ball. I've heard tons of talk about Brady being a lock for Canton...how can you be underrated if they say you're a lock for the HOF? Particularly when there are a handful of QB's every year that he's been in the league that are clearly superior to him. Brady is what he is...not a league MVP caliber player because he just isn't that good. He is great at what the Pats need him for and deserves a lot of credit for what he's done. He and Beligod still get more credit than they deserve while the D doesn't get enough and their O line does a pretty nice job too. For a sport that requires so many guys to play well for a team to win Brady gets more than enough credit.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Packers and Green Bay would be better teams with Brady at QB. Would they win championships? I doubt it but they would be better.

I think it's a tossup between Brady and Manning.

Manning has three top WR's, a top RB and two solid TE's. He's always on the field putting up numbers because his D gives up points so quickly. The Pats have a bend, don't break D and ball control offense which eats up clock and puts the ball in Brady's hands less than Manning. Manning has a problem with coughing up furballs in big games Brady does not. Manning loses his cool and gets frustrated when things start turning sour; Brady rallies his team. I think Manning has a better arm and is possibly more accurate with his deep balls.

Culpepper and Favre are good QB's but both have major leaks in their games. Neither are good in the playoffs and both make backbreaking errors at critical times. Favre in his prime was better than Brady is now but that was long time ago. Are we that blinded by the spectacular playes these guys make that we fail to see their major flaws?

Consitency and prudence are far more important than occasional brilliance when you want to win championships.

[pudley4]

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As to Manning never winning a big game...how about going to KC and knocking them off last year when he had to be PERFECT because his defense was so terrible and he was just that...perfect.

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Oh wow, he was perfect against the worst defense in the league. Wow, how remarkable.

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Tom Brady is a perfect fit for that system. Put him in Indy and the Colts win fewer games in the regular season

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Um, no.

[Lazymeatball]

I didn't see one Post in OOT with Brady in the subject line this week. That = underrated.

ps. I'm heavily biased.

[DMBFan23]

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[ QUOTE ]
As to Manning never winning a big game...how about going to KC and knocking them off last year when he had to be PERFECT because his defense was so terrible and he was just that...perfect.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh wow, he was perfect against the worst defense in the league. Wow, how remarkable.

[ QUOTE ]
Tom Brady is a perfect fit for that system. Put him in Indy and the Colts win fewer games in the regular season

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, no.

[/ QUOTE ]


I once read a quote in SI that said:
"Put John Elway on those 49er teams, and nothing changes in San Fran. Put Joe Montana on those Bronco teams Elway was on in the Mid 80s, and by 28 Joe is either dead or selling car insurance"

not as big a dichotomy in our present day case, but you get the idea. Peyton would be doing everything Tom Brady is doing in NE. why aren't we talking more about the impact of game planning and defense here?