why do u never hear about some book authors winning anything?

[PokerPaul]

yes, could have used another example instead of movies, but thats what just came to mind.

anyways, congrats on all the success you guys are enjoying lately with this boom.

Im sure you know how to run your business over all these armchair CEO's posting their opinions.

And hey.....i just ordered theory of poker after reading HPFAP and TPFAP.....looking forward to it.

[JohnG]

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i would definitely be more inclined to buy a poker tournament book written by Men "The Master" rather than Greg Raymer. you want a testament to what Men can teach you does? all you have to do is take a look at the tourney success of Van Pham, Minh Nguyen (2 time WSOP bracelet holder), and his cousin, David Pham (one of the best tournament players in the world). i doubt very seriously that any tutelage or advice from Greg has produced any where near the success in other players than Men's has in these three. BAR NONE! buy a book by Greg over Men. yeah, right! sounds more like who you know and who you're familiar with. where i come from, that's still not worth spending $30 beans. you gotta come with more than that.

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I doubt Men would share the secret of his teams success in a book.

[JohnG]

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It is entirely possible to be both a worse player and a better teacher than someone, and many believe that Greg Raymer is just that in comparison to Men Nguyen.

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I would say Greg is a better player than Men. I have no idea who the better teacher is.

[Desdia72]

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Men's tourney record alone, overshadows any success in poker that Greg has had, EXCEPT for his WSOP ME win. let's not forget, Greg, from the stats i've seen, has had less than 5 legitimate live casino poker tournament wins (most of which are small and hold no comparison to the WSOP ME), Men has had at least 75+ (with at least 5 being WSOP bracelets). sounds to me like nothing but clear favoriticism

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Desdia,

I think you are missing my point. I'm not saying Men is a cheater, but it's a commonly repeated claim (search RGP for Daniel N's first hand account). The allegations are that in those tournaments Men had groups of his acolytes dumping chips to him, both at the table and at night in their rooms. If there is any truth to those claims, then how many of his wins are legitimate?

Aside from that, you need to consider how many (and what kinds) tournaments Men has entered, and the average field size of each. Bracelets were a bit easier to come by in most years that Men was competing than in the last few years.

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c'mon, dude!!! you can't be serious. Greg won ONE HUGE tournament, to which ANY player would've been LUCKY to win. now you're trying to discredit Men having more bracelets by asking to consider the size of the fields he played in. that's ridiculous!! Men has won tournaments in Omaha, Omaha 8 or Better, Stud, Stud 8 or better, PLH, Limit, and No Limit! that's damn near ever form of poker except draw, Razz, pineapple, and Chinese. what point are you trying to make with the comment, "consider the TYPE of tournaments he [Men] has entered"? i know you're not using this as a defense for Greg winning a tournament so huge that not only will he probably not win again, but quite possibly never even make it back to the final table.

[Desdia72]

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You drag on and on about the fact that Greg doesn't win "CONSISTENTLY", or have the "proven track record", or has only "One big win from the WSOP ME". The fact of the matter is that while these statements may be true at face value they do not in fact mean anything at all. Up until the WSOP ME win Greg didn't play in all that many tournaments, certainly only a fraction of the events that Men, and Pham, and some of the other guys you mentioned have played in. In the tournaments Greg has played in his quality of play has produced results with a tremendous return on investment and has drawn favorable reviews from a number of highly respected players. Throw that in with the fact that Greg has consistently made great, informative, and easily digestible posts here for quite some time and its no wonder people would be interested in buying and reading his book. This isn't to say that Greg has the market on tournament poker teaching cornered in any way shape or form. Hell, maybe Men the Master could come up with a better book, but since I have no idea what his teaching and writing style are like I'm not exactly holding my breath on that one. But to ignore the Return on Investment that Greg gets in tournaments (big or small) and his history of informative instruction in this and other formats because he hasn't racked up enough WPT wins to satiate your demands reveals the true depth of your ignorance.

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of a player having a large ROI over a SHORTER SAMPLE of tournaments as a testament to his greatness knowing full well none of this means or guarantees the same current level of ROI over the long run playing more tournaments? am i correct? if you wanna talk about ignorance, then you need to reread your statement to see what you are implying. this is not about just WPT wins. this is about WINS PERIOD! IMO, there should be no one up in these forums defending Greg's success in a limited sample of tournaments as a testament of anything. and let's not forget, probably 95% of his tournament dollars won and profit (ROI) came from that ONE BIG TOURNAMENT. the only thing that says is that people can misconstrue and exaggerate that off the deep end.

[Freudian]

If you have trouble keeping up with orders, wouldn't it be more logical to increase supply and not try to keep demand down? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Although I understand why you wouldn't want to go on the tournament circuit in the hopes of winning a tournament for tonnes of reasons.

Desdia - I think you fail to understand that most posters here focus more on Greg Reymers past poker writing over his past poker tournament success in this discussion. Which seems somewhat relevant when talking about a poker book. I am sure that if Men worked with someone good with poker writing he could produce a very intersting poker book.

But simply assuming someone will produce a great book because of their tournament success is nonsense. Some of the worst poker books available have been written by players with much poker success.

[Fitz]

It's really not fair using this Brunson character as an example. He is obviously a flash in the pan who got lucky a few times. Let's see if he shows any real staying power over the long term.

I'd prefer to my advice from someone who has been around a little bit. Any yoyo off the bus can catch a hot run and win 9 WSOP bracelets. Don't waste your money on Supersystem; save up until you can afford the DVD's by Chris Moneymaker.

What do you wanna be?

Good luck all,

Fitz

[jakethebake]

Watch it! That's the most feared player on the Internet you're talking about.

[Desdia72]

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Watch it! That's the most feared player on the Internet you're talking about.

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LOL! i was thinking, "he can't be serious".

[lastchance]

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Watch it! That's the most feared player on the Internet you're talking about.

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LOL! i was thinking, "he can't be serious".

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In the past 2 years, Chris Moneymaker has made more money than everyone else in the world except 2 players (I think), and that includes this "Doyle Brunson" guy!