More fuel to the Psychoreligionology fire

[fishhook]

If evolution does not occur, how is it that we now have all different kinds of dairy cows, beef cattle, 100's of different breeds of dogs that didn't use to exist? When I was a kid there were only a few dozen kinds of tomato plants. Now there are are hundreds. There are all kinds of new colored roseflower bushes, etc,etc. How can new forms of life occur without evolution?

[kalooki45]

Well, I'm no scientist, and can't tell you diddly about evolution. I can tell you about roses and dairy cows, tho [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

ALL roses come from the original "wild rose". This is a rambler/climber that grows naturally. It has 4 petals, I think, and is a cream color.
These strong root stocks are still part of your modern tea roses, etc.
The "fancy" part is grafted onto the strong root stock to produce the modern hybrids.They are all man-made--bred, cross-bred and developed for hundreds of years by man.

In the case of dairy cows, same story. They are part of selective breeding for characteristics--made over centuries, by man.

[fishhook]

Yes, man has guided the evolutionary process of these plants and animals in a particular direction to achieve certain desired results. Maybe that doesn't fit the actual definition of evolution, but it does demonstrate that mutations, if selectively propagated will result in new and different organisms. Isn't that what evolution does?

[kalooki45]

In the case of roses particularly, I wouldn't call it "evolution" at all. They still have to be grafted, you see. That's why your rose plants have that knob where the roots begin. Left to themselves, they'd be the same old wild rose as ever.
The cows also--I wouldn't mistake selective breeding for evolution. They are all cows still [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Maurile's the expert here on the biology stuff--ask him how they define it--I can't say for certain.
It's my non-scientific guess that if you had to put a label on the cow herds--it would be "genetic engineering", not evolution.

[maurile]

[ QUOTE ]
The cows also--I wouldn't mistake selective breeding for evolution. They are all cows still [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
It's still evolution. "Evolution" denotes a change in allele frequencies in a given population over time.

Evolution works by mutation and selection. Most selection is "natural selection." But when humans are purposely exerting the selection pressure, it's "artifical selection." That distinction, however, is itself somewhat artificial.

Large tails are selected for in male peacocks because female peacocks find them attractive. This is natural selection. Large tails may be selected for in certain breeds of dog because humans find them attractive. This is artificial selection. They are both examples of evolution.

Cows are still cows, and dogs are still dogs, as kalooki45 pointed out. If you're looking for an example of new species being created by artificial selection, how about broccoli and cauliflower?

[AEKDBet]

C'mon everyone knows we can from the magic garden with the two naked people and the talking snake.


(paraphrased from David Cross)