"If you don't like it, leave"

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Again, attacking people's loyalty to country and insulting the president is NOT the same thing.

Again, they are precisely the same thing. Both are an expression of opinion in a deliberately provocative manner.

[hetron]

[ QUOTE ]
Insulting Dubya isn't the same as implying someone is unpatriotic or un-American.

It's precisely the same thing. Free speech is free speech is free speech.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong. McCarthyism in the 50's proved it is not the same. Accusations or insinuations of disloyalty to country in times of high paranoia (50's "red scare", post 9/11 etc.) are very dangerous. There were many reformers and progressives who chose to keep their mouths shut during
50's just so they didn't have anyone accuse of them being a commie. It became an easy way for McCarthy and his ilk to keep left wing opposition to US foreign policy to a minimum. The accusations of Anti-americanism made in post 9/11 America sound eerily familiar

[andyfox]

One shouldn't end a sentence with a preposition. So, for example, your response to me now should not be "Thanks for telling me what your were talking about," but, rather, "Thanks for telling me what you were talking about, [censored]."

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[andyfox]

I don't want to get into either a philosophical or semantic discussion, but I agree with your basic point. However, it is not just the suppression of individual rights that has caused the great tragedies. It is this combined with other factors (such as a weakened society in a state of shock or flux, and a lack of sympathy on the part of the would-be do-gooders with democracy). [I have posted before about a terrific analysis of this process called Seeing Like a State by James C. Scott.] There are some individual rights that are always sacrificed when a society is formed.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

What does McCarthyism (government forcing industrys to blacklist people due to political opinions) have to do with your original post:

I'm sorry, but when I hear this comment it just makes my blood boil. I'm sick and tired of hearing "conservatives" (or whatever the term imbeciles use for themselves for these days) tell "liberals" (the term they use for anyone who doesn't fall lockstep behind the leadership of our Bozo in Chief) to "leave the country" if they don't like it."

Second of all, if there is *any* hint of McCarthyism in this country, it's from the left in academia, where simply being a registered Republican is often reason enough to get a person denied tenure in a university.

Yes, conservatives usually employ this type of chauvinistic bluster to attack and impugn their opponents. Not liberal. No, you guys sneer down your "sophisticated" noses with smug intellectual superiority, using terms like "conservatives" (or whatever the term imbeciles use for themselves for these days) or "bozo-in-chief."

Real intelligent arguments on both sides. You know something? I think the "love-it-or-leave-it" types are morons, too. I also think people whose only way of criticizing an opponent is to denigrate his or her intelligence is a moron, too.

Well, fine. You have the right to your opinion about the President, and the guy who listens to your opinion and calls you unpatriotic, well he has the right to his opinion, too. And me, I also have an opinion.

You're both idiots.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

There are some individual rights that are always sacrificed when a society is formed.

Right. And it's the best governments that restrict the extent to which those rights are sacrificed.

I would contend that both sides of the debate want to sacrifice too many of our freedoms. Both are usually wrong.

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
simply being a registered Republican is often reason enough to get a person denied tenure in a university

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a new one on me. Is this verifiable or is it akin to the white guy claiming he didn't get a job because of "affirmative action."

----

Your are either fairly witty or terribly self unaware (I'm assuming witty, but really either one made me laugh.)

[ QUOTE ]
I also think people whose only way of criticizing an opponent is to denigrate his or her intelligence is a moron, too.

[/ QUOTE ]
....
[ QUOTE ]
You're both idiots.

[/ QUOTE ]

[andyfox]

I'm not so sure that the government which governs least governs best. The government which governs best governs best. That government which governs least borders on anarchy.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

the white guy claiming he didn't get a job because of "affirmative action."

Oh, yeah. Like that's never happened.

Your are either fairly witty or terribly self unaware

Like most people, anger dulls my wit and clouds my awareness, especially of what I've just written. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Gamblor]

...who 50+% of you all voted for.

Congratulations, you're stuck with him.

Solid support staff, though.

And the best part? Get ready for another 4 years!