Why do people love israel so much??

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Most of the Arab hatred for the Jews does come from the existence of the Jewish state. What other issues would th earab world have with the jews if they werent being subjugated by them? Probably not much more than your average religious prejudice (like they have for christians)


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Please, stop.

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IF you're going to TAKE SIDES, though (and you apparently are taking sides), why not side with the party which is LESS despicable???

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There are many conflicts/subconflicts here (internal Jewish and Arab power struggle etc.) but in the "main" conflict between Israel and the palestinians my sympathise list goes something like this:

1. Average Palestinian guy. Suppressed by a powerful apartheid nation.
2. Jews who don't support apartheid. May be coincidentially subject to a terror attack.

On my non-sympathy list:
1. Hamas. Killing indisriminately.
2. Israeli state. Systematically oppressing a people.
3. Hamas-supporters.
4. Jewish settlers.
5. Jews voting for apartheid.

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All right, I understand that part of your position, but you also wrote the following:

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I despise the whole fundament of which the state is made and the effects this has on innocent people. I think a state made for one people/ religion/ nationality etc. is an undemocratic bad idea since those not belonging to that people/ religion/ nationality etc. often ends up being suppressed (like Jews traditionally in Europe and Palestinians in Israel today).

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On that same basis you should EVEN MORE despise the Arab states which have laws denying equal rights to Jews and Christians.

If you despise Israel because you despise any state that is for one people/religion/nationality, you should EVEN MORE SO despise those Arab states which are EVEN MORE for one people/religion/nationality.

[twowords]

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I am not afraid of Jews blowing up my city (NYC), I am afraid of Muslims terrorists blowing up my city, as they have already done. Pretty simple. I'm on Isreal's side, and I am glad the US supports it.


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Quite the self-fulfilling prophacy here. Fair enough though, we are threatened by Muslims not Jews. Kind of makes me wish we had not supported either belligierent and instead supported an even-handed peace. Truman, Johnson, and Nixon chose Israel and in a sense we pay for that today.

Go ahead, hate Muslims and support Israel, but know that the US played a large role in screwing over the Palestians.

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...but know that the US played a large role in screwing over the Palestians.


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Maybe so, but I've got a question:

Why is it that of all the oppressed and displaced peoples (that I can think of), only the Palestinians have refused to move on and get to work trying to forge better lives for themselves--perhaps in other countries? Example: the "boat people" of Southeast Asia faced far worse and they just fled, risking dying on the journey, to come to America and start better lives from scratch. The Palestinians who were originally displaced, well, most of them aren't even alive now. And of all the oppressed or displaced groups in the world, ONLY the Palestinians are granted permanent refugee status by the U.N. which extends to all of their descendants in perpetuity.

What the hell? If our grandfathers were displaced, would you and I stick around in a hellhole, fighting a hopeless and miserable quixotic battle to try to reclaim our ancestral lands? Or would we go, say, to New York, in whatever way we might manage to get there?

There is no good reason why millions of third-generation Palestinian refugees should all stick around in a living hell. Every other group of refugees has found a way for many or most of them to leave and start new and better lives in new land. Why the heck don't the Palestinians? If you were a descendant of a refugee and even believeds you were 100% right and Israel was 100% wrong, would you waste your life tilting at windmills or would you make a move to go start a better life elsewhere as millions of other refugees the world over have done?

Never mind what is "right" for the moment; what would you DO as a third-generation refugee", who had never even set foot on the contested land? Waste your life throwing rocks in a living hell, or find a way to get the hell out of there and start over elsewhere?

[Jedster]

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I despise the whole fundament of which the state is made and the effects this has on innocent people. I think a state made for one people/ religion/ nationality etc. is an undemocratic bad idea since those not belonging to that people/ religion/ nationality etc. often ends up being suppressed (like Jews traditionally in Europe and Palestinians in Israel today).

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On that same basis you should EVEN MORE despise the Arab states which have laws denying equal rights to Jews and Christians.

If you despise Israel because you despise any state that is for one people/religion/nationality, you should EVEN MORE SO despise those Arab states which are EVEN MORE for one people/religion/nationality.

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Viewed in a vacuum, Israel certainly seems far from a model nation. But in the greater context of the middle east, M is right, Israel isn't the worst apple. In fact, the possibility that a Palestinian state may coexist with Israel in peace is perhaps the greatest hope for the region overall.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

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All right, I understand that part of your position, but you also wrote the following:

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I despise the whole fundament of which the state is made and the effects this has on innocent people. I think a state made for one people/ religion/ nationality etc. is an undemocratic bad idea since those not belonging to that people/ religion/ nationality etc. often ends up being suppressed (like Jews traditionally in Europe and Palestinians in Israel today).

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On that same basis you should EVEN MORE despise the Arab states which have laws denying equal rights to Jews and Christians.

If you despise Israel because you despise any state that is for one people/religion/nationality, you should EVEN MORE SO despise those Arab states which are EVEN MORE for one people/religion/nationality.

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They both think the same way: Our country is for those who are like us.

[andyfox]

"Why do people love Israel so much? ......I think it is more that people don't like Arabs."

This is true. The Zionists originally sold themselves to the Europeans as an agent of Western civilization in a sea of Oriental backwardness. This view of both societies still has resonance.

But there was also an element of justice in the founding of Israel. In light of European and Russian antisemitism, and the holocaust, a country for the Jewish people seemed fitting and proper. The Zionists also sold the Jews as a nation, not as a religious entity. There was, of course, an element of injustice in Zioinism in that this land for a people without one was not a land without people already there. But those people were, like natives everywhere, treated like non-people for a long time.

Israel is also seen as the only democracy in a sea of authoritarianism.

[BluffTHIS!]

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"Why do people love Israel so much? ......I think it is more that people don't like Arabs."

This is true. The Zionists originally sold themselves to the Europeans as an agent of Western civilization in a sea of Oriental backwardness. This view of both societies still has resonance.

But there was also an element of justice in the founding of Israel. In light of European and Russian antisemitism, and the holocaust, a country for the Jewish people seemed fitting and proper. The Zionists also sold the Jews as a nation, not as a religious entity. There was, of course, an element of injustice in Zioinism in that this land for a people without one was not a land without people already there. But those people were, like natives everywhere, treated like non-people for a long time.

Israel is also seen as the only democracy in a sea of authoritarianism.

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I agree with this statement 100%. And this is a devout christian agreeing with an atheist/agnostic. So it should be clear that it is likely that such preference for Israel is not just religious or cultural affinity, but a rational one. And the constant images on television of mobs of moslems in the streets demonstrating over any tiny perceived wrong after being egged on by mullahs who have no religious education, together with so-called "honor" killings of family members and cutting the clits off little girls, show that reason simply cannot side with the predominant islamic culture that exists in arab states.

[ACPlayer]

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I just find this marked dislike for Israel very befuddling.

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Why? Considering that our policies in the middle east directly impact us in America on a day to day basis. The Hutu policy has perhaps a tertiary impact on our lives. Notice that America has not sided with the Hutu's over Tutsi's or vice-versa.

If you really have to ask the question, you dont understand or are willing to acknowledge the harm that the Israel policy has done to us. I am all for letting Israel live on, just as I am for the Hutu's or the Tutsi's or whatever. Once it starts impacting me, I have to be at least concerned about it. I also dont particularly care if the Israeli's are putting Palestinians in a Ghetto, except that our unfair one-sided support has got us into trouble.

Having said all that, sure I care about the Jewish people killed by bombs, or the Palestinians living in hell under the IDF, or the Darfur massacres etc. But I care about all of them and want out govt to first protect us and then try to take care of these problems. Instead the govt protects Israel at our expense and at the expense of all the other groups.

[ACPlayer]

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So, WHICH IS MORE DESPICABLE? And which should you object to more strenously?

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We should object to neither.

We should be truly neutral and let them sort themselves out for the most part - a token commitment to blue helmets I can live with that. Like we do in Kashmir, or in Darfur, or ...

Supporting Israel because they are less despicable is idiotic, specially when we know the support is costing us dearly.