Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > 2+2 Communities > Other Other Topics
FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 08-01-2002, 05:02 PM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Yeah, right . . .



The spiral of the recent violence started with Sharon's visit, no matter how you'll spin it. That's simply the record of events. At the time, the two sides were still in distant diplomatic contact. The Palestinians were trying to salvage the Camp David fiasco that Barak's inexperience brought about. Sharon would have none of it.


Of course it did. I didn't dispute when the violence started, I said that a visit to a Temple is no justification for homicide bombings. I'll go beyond that and say it is no justification for any violence (not that the Palestinians have ever needed justification, they'll use any old excuse they can find). The parties WERE still talking peace before the Palestinians started the violence. The violence was what derailed the peace talks.


I give Clinton credit--he nearly pulled off what I thought was impossible. Alas, he didn't quite succeed, and now things are worse than ever.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 08-02-2002, 06:50 AM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: To Chris, Cyrus and anyone else



"I don't believe that the US and its clients engage routinely in anything I would term "terrorism"--at least not in recent years."


Two cases of U.S. support for state terror date from the late 1990's: Indonesia in East Timor and Turkey's repression of its Kurdish population. Recalling Bush's (logically correct) assertion that material support for terrorists is no better than terrorism, the U.S. bears responsibility because it supplies lethal aid and training to the offending states, as well as diplomatic and financial support. Although the worst actions occurred a few years ago, residual human rights abuses are ongoing.


1. Turkey vs. the Kurds.


"The [Kurdish] population as a whole has often been targeted and has endured two decades of terrible hardship, instability, and fear. Kurdish villagers in particular have been subjected to frequent security raids in which they have been abused, tortured, and even "disappeared," or extrajudicially executed." “Backgrounder on the Repression of the Kurds in Turkey," http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/turkey/kurd.htm. The Boston Globe reported on 2/21/96 that “about 2,200 villages in the [Kurdistan] region have been destroyed, according to a recent report by Human Rights Watch, the international monitoring group. An estimated 19,000 people, many of them civilians, have died in this decade-long war in the far reaches of Kurdistan - a war largely unreported by Western media.” http://www.diaspora-net.org/Turkey/bogloarm.html The same article notes that “in the last 10 years, Congress has appropriated $5.3 billion in military aid (grants and loans to purchase weapons) for Turkey [a NATO ally], making it the third largest recipient of US military aid behind Israel and Egypt. Overall, Turkey has been on a weapons buying binge: from 1985 to 1994 it has purchased some $7.8 billion in weaponry, approximately 80 percent of it from US manufacturers.” The article also notes that U.S. equipment played a major direct role in the Kurdistan terror campaigns.


2. Indonesia vs. the Timorese.


On the East Timorese being terrorized by militias under the control of the Indonesian military: “Militias in West Timor are terrorizing the East Timorese, infiltrating the camps and systematically attempting to identify and retaliate against independence supporters. They have also assaulted, "disappeared," and killed those attempting to aid or shelter refugees.” “Protect Refugees in West Timor, http://www.hrw.org/press/1999/sep/refugee0923.htm. “According to the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency, deliveries of U.S. military equipment to Indonesia in 1993-1995 totaled $70 million. In FY1997, the most recent year for which figures are available, the U.S. delivered equipment worth $13.4 million, concluded new government-to-government (Foreign Military Sales) agreements of $793,000, and approved new commercial military licenses worth $66.1 million. For FY1999, the Administration is seeking $400,000 to train 27 Indonesian officers.” http://cdi.org/issues/indonesia/indonesiaposition.html. Also in 1999, HRW later called for “immediate suspension of all military training and assistance programs to the Indonesian army until there is some evidence that it is making a serious effort to bring its proxy militias under control.” http://www.hrw.org/press/1999/aug/timor0901.htm. The U.S. briefly complied with this request, suspending aid until Indonesia takes “effective measures to bring to justice members of the armed forces and militia groups against whom there is credible evidence of human rights violations in East Timor and Indonesia.” http://www.etan.org/news/2002a/07leahy.htm. Despite this, “the Indonesian military continues to strongly resist reform and evade accountability for human rights violations, and continues to commit atrocious abuses of civilians throughout Indonesia.” http://www.etan.org/action/action2/07alert.htm Nevertheless, “the Bush administration, exploiting the “war on terrorism,” has mounted an aggressive campaign to remove congressional barriers to engagement with the brutal Indonesian military (TNI).” Id. This very morning Secretary Powell announced that the U.S. was going to renew normal military ties with Indonesia.


You can expect more cases like these in the near future as the U.S. escalates support for state terror against civilians that support various revolutionary, seperatist, and independence groups that threaten local elites tied to the U.S. It will no doubt be justified as part of the "war against terror."


If you want to do something or say something principled about terrorism, look first to your own zone of responsibility.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.