Blind Defense (In General)

[Nigel]

Since this thread is about blind defense, why are you guys posting your overall win rates for the blinds when you can use PT to filter for the times a steal is attempted against your blinds? (additionally you can filter which position, and if you defended HU or multiway)

I would think these would be far more relevant statistics for this discussion, no? I mean, a few monster hands from the blinds with half the table seeing the flop is going to have a huge effect on your overall WR from the position but not say much about what is going on in your defense situations.

Nigel

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
the problem with this is you're going to lose the respectability of your 3-bets, and a lot of players cap very lightly since a 3-bet in a steal situation is perceived as just a resteal.

I think you're getting carried away, but just from those few hands we played against each other a month or so ago. you were really overzealous with your stealing (stealing with Q4s and stealing/capping with K3s). it's nice to have initiative but it has its pitfalls. I also don't know how light you're going. are you saying if the button raises and you're the BB you're raising more than you're calling?

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, Those hands against you were definately the exception rather than the norm simply because it was against you and its always fun to try to out aggress people that you know [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

I'm not exactly sure what my call to 3bet ratio is in the BB, ill try to check it tommorow when I have more time.

I am definately 3betting a ton in the sb though. Stuff like K9, QT, JT, any suited ace, any pair...im not sure if this is standard for most of you guys or not, but its relatively new for me.

In the big blind Im not neccsarily 3betting everything, but ive definately started 3betting more often than I used to. For example I used to just call with stuff like QJ or KT or A9, but now its pretty much an auto 3bet.

I have a feeling this isnt too out of line with where you and alot of other guys are at, sorry if my first post (which was mostly meant as a joke if you saw the part in white) caused confusion.

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]


I am definately 3betting a ton in the sb though. Stuff like K9, QT, JT, any suited ace, any pair...im not sure if this is standard for most of you guys or not, but its relatively new for me.

In the big blind Im not neccsarily 3betting everything, but ive definately started 3betting more often than I used to. For example I used to just call with stuff like QJ or KT or A9, but now its pretty much an auto 3bet.



[/ QUOTE ]

I've recently started doing this too. I found it works pretty well, especially against alot of 16-ish pfr players who have quite high ATSB rates - they usually are tightish about raising but loosen way up in the CO/Button, and will give up pretty easy.

However, I've gotten into a bit of trouble against certain types of players - namely the 40/30s and other LAGs who will cap with like 50% of what they are stealing with. It's really hard(read: usually stupid) to call down with A8o UI after getting capped preflop, even if intellectually I recognize he may be capping light.

Also, other lags who will c/r any flop that big cards miss. It's nice to occassionally go 3bets on the flop and 1 on the turn + river when I have AA and he has KQ UI, but more often it's making me crazy when I have AT UI.

It's more important to me to recognize these players, and just flatcall the original steal with A8o intending to get to showdown since he'll bet so many postflop streets with a worse hand.

Surf

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
if it 'gets me into trouble' then I start doing it with really good hands. if he folds to it on the turn a lot, I mix in semibluffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with that is you can usually get more money in there with a different line, bet-3bet, for example.

I'm not saying you should never check-raise the flop in this situation, just that the line is usually sub-optimal for what you're trying to accomplish.

You clearly need to be able to check-raise the flop, or else a thinking opponent will know that he never has to fear a check-raise. I'm just saying it's a line that should be used sparingly unless you're up against a thinking TAG.

[ALL1N]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying you should never check-raise the flop in this situation, just that the line is usually sub-optimal for what you're trying to accomplish.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. IMO, CR'ing the flop should be your standard. Everytime you decide to continue past the flop in a HU steal situation, you should consider taking this course of action. I'm a big fan of using other lines, but CR'ing the flop is the trusty standby.

[baronzeus]

i had this hand today

4 handed absolute 10/20

22 in BB

lagish/tagish button raises, i call

flop KKQ

check/call

turn K

i check-raise

river 6

i bet he calls



should i have check-raised the flop?

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying you should never check-raise the flop in this situation, just that the line is usually sub-optimal for what you're trying to accomplish.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. IMO, CR'ing the flop should be your standard. Everytime you decide to continue past the flop in a HU steal situation, you should consider taking this course of action. I'm a big fan of using other lines, but CR'ing the flop is the trusty standby.

[/ QUOTE ]

What does it do for you that donking, bet-3betting or C/R'ing the turn doesn't do better?

[helpmeout]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying you should never check-raise the flop in this situation, just that the line is usually sub-optimal for what you're trying to accomplish.


[/ QUOTE ]

Quit smoking crack.

I checkraise the flop nearly always. Its the standard and best line.

Its the best play because the player 99% follows up even with trash.

You get 1 bet if he is on a pure steal while gaybetting nets you 0.

Waiting for the turn is a weak play that results in freecards. Only real braindead aggressive players will continually bet the turn with nothing. Most players will take the freecard when they know that you are a turn checkraiser.

Same with bet/3bet.

I dont know what sort of opponents you are playing but these tactics are weak. I'm sure I remember arguing with naphand about this a long time ago.

[ QUOTE ]
If the guy to your right figures out that you don't defend very often at all (as they do in higher limits) you're giving up a significant amount of money.

[/ QUOTE ]

My guess is that most players defend their BB 75% of the time. Defending 40% would be plenty to deter stealing (to the extent anyone notices -- which they don't until at least 30/60), especially when you liberally 3-bet back at them.

[ QUOTE ]
I've been experimenting with this myself, say instead of checkraising the flop I just call the flop if it's raggy and i'll go for the turn checkraise with hands like gutshot+overcard, middlepair, top pair, set.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a good line in many circumstances. Keep in mind, though, that as a bluff this needs to work 2.5 times more than a flop c/r to be +EV.