I like Phil Hellmuth

[maryfield48]

I listened to Card Players final table audio, much of the commentary for which was done by Phil. There was a hand where I think it was Black made a large bet post-flop and got called when he was something like a >70% fave, only to see his opp. (may have been Dannenman) call all-in and then catch an out to take the pot. Phil went on and on about how sickening it was, and he sounded genuinely put out that the underdog had won the pot.

It's almost like it deeply offends his view of the world when the right play is not always rewarded, even when he has no personal stake in the outcome (of course I don't know that to be true in the example, he may have had a large bet on Black winning, who knows?)

"I'm at a table full of people who don't know what they are doing" and "they have the worst poker players in the world in this place" are great lines. with the exception of X22, he is probably right about his table and with 5400 people signed up many would probably qualify as the worst players in the world, definately. the KJ guy is one of the worst players in the world when he's on top of his game. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[otnemem]

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...he may have had a large bet on Black winning, who knows?)

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Always bet on black.

[maryfield48]

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...he may have had a large bet on Black winning, who knows?)

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Always bet on black.

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Prexactly.

For the sake of accuracy, I found the Cardplayer update of the hand. I mis-remembered the action, Black called Dannenman's all-in:

Hand 125 - Steve Dannenmann has the button in seat 8, Barch raises to $600,000, Dannenmann calls, and Black calls. The flop comes 9s-6c-5c, Black bets $1,000,000, Barch folds, and Dannenmann sits still, looking at the cards. He doesn't look that interested, but after a little while he quietly says, "All in."

Now Black lifts his sunglasses up on his head, and starts taking the situation more seriously, studying the board with a wry smile. Dannenmann is smiling back at him a bit, which he's done a lot tonight. Finally, Black confidently says, "I call."

Black shows 10s-9h (top pair), while Dannenmann has As-6s (second pair). Dannenmann needs to catch a six, an ace, or running spades to win this pot, which could be the largest of the tournament so far.

The turn card is the 3c, and Dannenmann needs to catch a six or an ace (5 outs) to stay alive.

The river card is the Ac, and Dannenmann makes two pair to take a huge pot from the Irishman Andrew Black.

BTW the audio is very absorbing listening, and Phil was highly entertaining. It was fun to hear the analysis from the pros when they didn't know the hole cards.

Let the man vent. He had just gotten knocked out of the WSOP. He did not berate the man with 77 he only complained to his wife, what is the problem with that?

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All I know is that I really wanted to throw something at the screen all night.

How can you be mad at the KJ guy... who by the way ISNT A PROFESSIONAL for being hypocritical when phil points out the 5% edge on 99-JTs, and then whine to his (psychologist..classic) wife abuot the same edge later?

I mean, Im still pondering how he got his bracelets... I know I came on the poker scene after he got most of them (2002) but I havent yet seen him play world class poker.

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Phil wasn't whining about the edge at all. He never claimed he had a bad beat on that hand. He was whining about the poor play in that hand. Not sure on the stack sizes, but Magriel couldn't have figured he was better than a coinflip, and chances are the he was an 80-20 dog. The guy with KJ was pretty bad.

Phil should probably stop pushing preflop with anything but aces. If he thinks he has a good edge over the average player (which he does), then being all-in just negates that edge.

[Uppercut]

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"I'm at a table full of people who don't know what they are doing" and "they have the worst poker players in the world in this place" are great lines. with the exception of X22, he is probably right about his table and with 5400 people signed up many would probably qualify as the worst players in the world, definately. the KJ guy is one of the worst players in the world when he's on top of his game. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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Therefore, the man with the nine (count 'em, nine) WSOP bracelets ought to be able to easily steamroll such a weak group, doncha think?

[MeanGreenTT]

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IMO, Phil was right that it's bad etiquette to ask to see his hand.

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It was not bad etiquette, not in the least! This was not a case where he called down then mucked the loser.

He showed the losing hand to the other live player, in this case, he showed his hand and everyone at the table has the right to same information.

In the previous case, if he'd mucked without showing, some angle shooting asshats ask to see the cards and the rule in this case exists to prevent suspected collusion. In most cases, cheating is not occurring and the angle shooter is looking for information he'd not otherwise have.

Phil showed his hand, and if I saw it, I'd ask to see 'em everytime. Local card room has the same rule and I see it enforced by the delaer in most cases at least twice a tourney. Not angle shooting and not bad etiquette.

[benfranklin]

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"I'm at a table full of people who don't know what they are doing" and "they have the worst poker players in the world in this place" are great lines. with the exception of X22, he is probably right about his table and with 5400 people signed up many would probably qualify as the worst players in the world, definately.

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Phil shows a serious lack of grasp of reality here. He knows he is playing against donks. He plays as if he is playing in the TOC against Lederer, Duke, etc. He expects the donks to react to his professional moves like professionals, and then berates the donks for playing like donks.

If Phil was a good player, he would adjust his game for his opponents. When Annie Duke busted out last year, she went on TV whining about how hard it is to bluff out donks who won't fold to a bluff. Hello!!!!!!!!!! If you can't bluff out a donk, then don't try to bluff out a donk. Then she busted out early again this year.

Note to Phil, Annie, etc.: insanity is repeating the same action expecting a different outcome.

[daryn]

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"I'm at a table full of people who don't know what they are doing" and "they have the worst poker players in the world in this place" are great lines. with the exception of X22, he is probably right about his table and with 5400 people signed up many would probably qualify as the worst players in the world, definately. the KJ guy is one of the worst players in the world when he's on top of his game. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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Therefore, the man with the nine (count 'em, nine) WSOP bracelets ought to be able to easily steamroll such a weak group, doncha think?

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well he did get the guy to put his whole stack in w/ 30% equity. stacks are important in that hand.. guy throws in 15K in chips w/ KJ.. yipes