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#51
11-18-2005, 03:20 PM
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Re: Modern arguments for communism?
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[ QUOTE ] I'm pretty sure communism relies on everyone working as hard as they can, [/ QUOTE ] This is a great reason why it doesn't work. Slackers. (and selfish slackers at that) [/ QUOTE ] Slackers would only be hurting themselves and their society 
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#52
11-18-2005, 03:21 PM
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Re: Modern arguments for communism?
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Thoe of a certain conservative ideology believe that, but socialists wouldn't. Altruistic behaviour in humans suggest that your statement isn't true. [/ QUOTE ] Depends on your definition of altruistic. It's easily argued that no act is truly selfless. [/ QUOTE ] Of course seemingly selfless acts are perhaps done as the person doing them expects to gain something in return. That seems as much as an argument for communism as it is against. [/ QUOTE ] I wasn't arguing for or against communism with this statement. I was saying that your use of altruistic acts to prove people aren't inherently selfish doesn't work. [/ QUOTE ] Sure, but thats a question of defination. To me the reasons behind the act of altruism don't matter.
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#53
11-18-2005, 03:24 PM
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Re: Modern arguments for communism?
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Of course there are legitimate arguments for communism, true egalitarianism is a pretty perssuasive one to me. Basically the arguments for communism are the same today as they were when marx wrote em down. The working class is in no better situation (even though the upper classes trick them into thinking they are). [/ QUOTE ] That's not even close to true. [/ QUOTE ] Please add content to your next post. [/ QUOTE ] OK. Umm. The working class is much better off than they were in the 1840s, in terms of life expectancy, real wages, access to education, personal savings, workplace safety, political influence, right to unionize, social safety net, etc. Better? Could you not guess that that's what I meant when I said your previous statement was not true? [/ QUOTE ] While teh actual working conditions have improved forthe working class (in america and the west perhaps) the essential problem of the working class has not been solved. The working class are still exploited for their labor and the upper classes still unjustly profit from the lower class labor. Because the upper class does it less overtly doesnt mean they working class has really gotten anywhere
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#54
11-18-2005, 03:26 PM
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Re: Modern arguments for communism?
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Sure, but thats a question of defination. To me the reasons behind the act of altruism don't matter. [/ QUOTE ] This doesn't make any sense at all. Comitting an generous act for selfish reasons does not prove men are not inherently selfish. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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#55
11-18-2005, 03:28 PM
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Re: Modern arguments for communism?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'm pretty sure communism relies on everyone working as hard as they can, [/ QUOTE ] This is a great reason why it doesn't work. Slackers. (and selfish slackers at that) [/ QUOTE ] Slackers would only be hurting themselves and their society [/ QUOTE ] Maybe they're only slacking because communism has removed their incentive to not be. I'd argue that the smartest & strongest would and should become slackers under a communist system because they're being robbed by it.
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#56
11-18-2005, 03:30 PM
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Re: Modern arguments for communism?
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[ QUOTE ] a communist state says nothing about mediocrity, this is always added by anti commusinsts. In a true communist state there is great incentive to excell in order to improve your community and your fellow man. [/ QUOTE ] If this widespread incentive existed ANYWHERE society would be wonderful. If all American capitalists were working to improve community and help their fellow man, we'd all be happy sappy hippies dancing around the maypole and everything would be wonderful. [/ QUOTE ] the purpose of capitalism is to make money, every action taken is towards this goal. Community is not the main goal, sure businesses may help out thier community but it is almost always with the idea of making money in mind.
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#57
11-18-2005, 03:31 PM
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Re: Modern arguments for communism?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'm pretty sure communism relies on everyone working as hard as they can, [/ QUOTE ] This is a great reason why it doesn't work. Slackers. (and selfish slackers at that) [/ QUOTE ] Slackers would only be hurting themselves and their society [/ QUOTE ] Most people will not be looking at it on the societal level, especially in the long run. This problem is endemic to a lot of societies lik ecommunism. Jeez, even social animals have developed ways to catch cheaters because it's so innate that individuals are selfish and lazy.
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#58
11-18-2005, 03:32 PM
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Re: Modern arguments for communism?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'm pretty sure communism relies on everyone working as hard as they can, [/ QUOTE ] This is a great reason why it doesn't work. Slackers. (and selfish slackers at that) [/ QUOTE ] Slackers would only be hurting themselves and their society [/ QUOTE ] Maybe they're only slacking because communism has removed their incentive to not be. I'd argue that the smartest & strongest would and should become slackers under a communist system because they're being robbed by it. [/ QUOTE ] No one would be robbed under a true communist system, the society would be producing at a maximum capacity and thus there is nothing more for anyone to have that they would be robbed of.
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#59
11-18-2005, 03:33 PM
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Re: Modern arguments for communism?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'm pretty sure communism relies on everyone working as hard as they can, [/ QUOTE ] This is a great reason why it doesn't work. Slackers. (and selfish slackers at that) [/ QUOTE ] Slackers would only be hurting themselves and their society [/ QUOTE ] Most people will not be looking at it on the societal level, especially in the long run. This problem is endemic to a lot of societies lik ecommunism. Jeez, even social animals have developed ways to catch cheaters because it's so innate that individuals are selfish and lazy. [/ QUOTE ] Education woul dplay a large role in instilling the idea of community and thus help create a long term view of society and it's goals.
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#60
11-18-2005, 03:36 PM
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Re: Modern arguments for communism?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'm pretty sure communism relies on everyone working as hard as they can, [/ QUOTE ] This is a great reason why it doesn't work. Slackers. (and selfish slackers at that) [/ QUOTE ] Slackers would only be hurting themselves and their society [/ QUOTE ] Most people will not be looking at it on the societal level, especially in the long run. This problem is endemic to a lot of societies lik ecommunism. Jeez, even social animals have developed ways to catch cheaters because it's so innate that individuals are selfish and lazy. [/ QUOTE ] Education woul dplay a large role in instilling the idea of community and thus help create a long term view of society and it's goals. [/ QUOTE ] It's just not going to work. No amount of education can overcome people's natural tendencies towards selfishness. I'm not a pessimist about people be a-holes but a certain level of selfishness is inborn and actually good in many regards. Going to some classes is not going to wipe out hundreds of millions of years of evolution.
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