Is it good to stay in the red zone? - Page 6

Jason Strasser · #51 10-25-2005, 04:24 PM

HARD DOES NOT MEAN BAD

#52 10-25-2005, 04:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes I think it is advantagous to maintain an M of 5 or less. That way, you can make EV+ pushes with marginal hands and more EV+ pushes and calls with big hands.

I don't think it is necessarily worthwhile to make marginal pushes with like 9xBB with a small ante or no ante. If I get blinded down, I will have better opportunities.

Some will say you can't win a tournament as a small stack. However, a lot of daily live tournament and online tournaments on some sites have fast structures so that everyone at the final table is short stacked.

Of course you don't mind doubling up and becoming a bigger stack. However, as a medium stack, you have to more wait for big hands. As a short stack or a small stack, you can play more aggressively.

[/ QUOTE ]

You shouldn't be -trying- to maintain a small stack is the key, and justify bad play through it. What I mean , and what I said in another post, is that you should continue making +EV decisions throughout, and if in the process of doing that, or the lack of +EV spots you end up in the red zone, then those red zone "opportunities" open up. This certainly does not justify -EV plays in an effort to keep yourself in the redzone, as you will be trying to recover chips you lost by making those -EV plays, and by improving your mid-stack game you are also able to make more +EV plays in those spots as well.

A_PLUS · #53 10-25-2005, 04:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This thread is ridiculous

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

100% agreed, I was having a hard time telling if he was serious, or of this was part of his sarcastic MTT Guide

rockythecat99 · #54 10-25-2005, 04:38 PM

This is retarded. Say you pick up AA and you have decided to keep your stack short. And now there is a raise and a reraise and you want to shove to triple up. So instead of tripling up and becoming chip leader with a huge chance to win, you have tripled up and have an average stack. How is this +EV??

sdplayerb · #55 10-25-2005, 04:54 PM

no, you want a 10x so you can wait for a big hand, and if you get back into the redzone you push to try to get back into a position where you can wait for a situation to double up to a 20x stack, then you can start to push people around.

this is absurd.

sounds like you can only play a pushin game.

A_PLUS · #56 10-25-2005, 05:00 PM

I typed out a whole thing highlighting the major logical flaws in this arguement, but deleted it, after I started cursing to myself.

think of this...

you have 5xBB and push, are called by X.
you have 9xBB and raise to 5xBB, are reraised all in by X.
The intrinsic value of the 5xBB bet hasnt changed. it still wins you the smae number of chips 100% of the time.

In case 2, you can either fold and have a great 4xBB redzone stack (which are SO valuable), or you make a +EV call.

So, explain to me why having a 5xBB stack is worth more than 1/2 of a 10xBB stack, when we could just raise 1/2 our stack, incorrectly fold if reraised and have exactly 1/2 or stack?

This thread is borderline lunacy

pfkaok · #57 10-25-2005, 05:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My analogies suck.

[/ QUOTE ]

no. your analogies are OK. but you're missing the point ENTIRELY.

are you guys really THAT stubborn? or just to lazy to actually THINK about the point he's making here?

I know how to play a mid stack just fine, and i'm sure Betgo does too. the point is, that a stack of that size simply can't be played all that profitably, no matter who you are. there are a whole lot of spots where you could raise or limp with a big stack, push with a small stack, but if you have a midstack you HAVE to fold. think about that. the reason its "tough" to play with a midstack sometiems is that all of your options are either breakeven, or very, very slightly +EV.

Its NOT a matter of learning to play the stack better. the point is that no matter how well you play, you won't have as many VERY +EV spots as you will with a different sized stack.

Whitey · #58 10-25-2005, 05:16 PM

Next MTT I play I'm going to put all my chips in except 1 and fold.

That way with my 1 chip I will be much better off decision wise.

I mean, even if its the first round I'll be getting 15-1 and no 2 cards are 15-1 against a random hand, I might even wait a bit longer so there are antes and then I'll be even better off!

pfkaok · #59 10-25-2005, 05:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Next MTT I play I'm going to put all my chips in except 1 and fold.

That way with my 1 chip I will be much better off decision wise.

I mean, even if its the first round I'll be getting 15-1 and no 2 cards are 15-1 against a random hand, I might even wait a bit longer so there are antes and then I'll be even better off!

[/ QUOTE ]

HAHAHAH. ok who wants to be the next monkey to make a sarcastic joking insult without even bothering to think the least bit about the idea here. c'mon. i know someone wants to.

adanthar · #60 10-25-2005, 05:26 PM

yes, that's it, betgo and you have stumbled upon a revolutionary new idea that everyone in this forum is too dumb and/or lazy to see, namely that taking -EV gambles for 3/4 of your stack is a good idea because when you lose you have lots of +EV opportunities (to double up to half of where you were)

Or maybe, this whole thing is retarded. Whichever.