My brother the Solider - Page 6

DVaut1 · #51 08-15-2005, 10:51 AM

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I'm somewhat curious whether people on the left here are deliberately conflating Nuremberg-type crimes with what's going on in Iraq or are just ignorant of the truth.

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No one did that.

At least when I brought up Nuremberg, it was only to indicate that we ought to expect soldiers (that is, precedent exists which demonstrates we would punish if otherwise) to behave ethically. If they're ordered to behave unethically/immorally, I think they should be able to opt-out. Whether or not this contributes to/detracts from military efficacy is irrelevant.

I don't think anyone (at least in this thread) compared Nazi war crimes to current American military behavior in Iraq.

DVaut1 · #52 08-15-2005, 10:55 AM

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This is not correct. The problem with WW2 was not the Nazis fighting a war against other nations. The problem was THE EXTERMINATION OF JEWS, GYPSIES, HOMOSEXUALS, etc. Those were the war crimes.

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What YOU just said it not correct.

Nazi leadership was tried, among other things, for initiating and waging wars of aggression:

"The International Military Tribunal was opened on October 18, 1945, in the Supreme Court Building in Berlin....The indictments were for:

1. Conspiracy to commit crimes against peace
2. Planning, initiating and waging wars of aggression
3. War crimes
4. Crimes against humanity"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Trials

bobman0330 · #53 08-15-2005, 10:58 AM

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No one did that.

At least when I brought up Nuremberg, it was only to indicate that we ought to expect soldiers (that is, precedent exists which demonstrates we would punish if otherwise) to behave ethically. If they're ordered to behave unethically/immorally, I think they should be able to opt-out. Whether or not this contributes to/detracts from military efficacy is irrelevant.

I don't think anyone (at least in this thread) compared Nazi war crimes to current American military behavior in Iraq.

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Suggesting that Nuremberg stands for the proposition that soldiers in Iraq should refuse to follow orders necessarily requires that: a) you misunderstand the rulings of the Nuremberg tribunal or b) you believe whatever crimes are taking place in Iraq are much worse than they truly are.

Bush and Blair could conceivably be tried for instigating a war of aggression. Ordinary soldiers could not.

DVaut1 · #54 08-15-2005, 11:01 AM

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Suggesting that Nuremberg stands for the proposition that soldiers in Iraq should refuse to follow orders necessarily requires that: a) you misunderstand the rulings of the Nuremberg tribunal or b) you believe whatever crimes are taking place in Iraq are much worse than they truly are.

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I never said, nor suggested, soldiers should refuse orders in Iraq.

In fact, I think I've been very careful to state that I don't believe, as Chris Alger might, that the American military is currently committing war crimes.

DVaut1 · #55 08-15-2005, 11:03 AM

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Bush and Blair could conceivably be tried for instigating a war of aggression. Ordinary soldiers could not.

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Very true.

Yet you would not hold soldiers personally accountable for war crimes they committed?

Not that this should to be said, but apparently its needed for some, I'm not talking about American soldiers here; just hypothetically.

bobman0330 · #56 08-15-2005, 11:09 AM

I'm not trying to pin anything specific on you, but it has certainly been suggested in this thread.

War crimes do not include aggressive war. Individuals are already subject to personal liability for war crimes under US law.

superleeds · #57 08-15-2005, 11:22 AM

I have read some of your other comments thru this thread and it seems to me that whatever the problems between you and your mother this is her way of saying to her son, 'Don't go and do something stupid that may result in you getting killed.'

#58 08-15-2005, 12:46 PM

Tell your brother that I thank him for his service.

ThaSaltCracka · #59 08-15-2005, 01:06 PM

My brother is in the exact same situation as yours. God speed to him, and hopefully he stays safe over there.

MtSmalls · #60 08-15-2005, 02:58 PM

"Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner"

I think that everyone here can agree that we respect the sacrifice that our soldiers are making, living and dying in service to their country. I hope that everyone here who has a family member or friend serving sees that person home safe, physically and mentally. I also hope that the current administration is thrown out on their ears starting in 2006, for putting them in that place.