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#51
07-26-2005, 03:42 PM
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Re: Isolating a TAG
[ QUOTE ]
...if a suitable flop comes, you might be able to scoop the pot... you are not only playing a trashy ace, but you have a deuce which significantly worsens your hand... [/ QUOTE ] In making this play - my cards really don't matter as much as you're trying to give them credit for. Who cares what my kicker is. Who cares if I have an Ace - I would've made this raise with JT. Maybe that's wrong. My opinion is that all I need to know is that this tight/aggressive player is limping a certain range of hands in EP which will fold to a flop bet when he doesn't hit. I'm of the opinion that the board will flop enough misses for him to make this a profitable play for me. [ QUOTE ] Isolation helps you take advantage of early limpers playing BAD hands. It does not help you take advantage of good players playing good hands. The good player will release a hand if they don't connect. If they do connect, you will pay them off. [/ QUOTE ] I think that there are many times where they fold a hand significantly ahead of my holding that didn't appear to hit them. 
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#52
07-26-2005, 03:43 PM
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Re: Isolating a TAG
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] This was an average-to-betterThanAverage loose/passive Party 2/4 game. [/ QUOTE ]Not a isolating environment. [/ QUOTE ] In general - I agree. My view changed when 60% of the loose players folded and I was left to act against a tight player and 2 reasonable blinds.
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#53
07-26-2005, 03:56 PM
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Re: Isolating a TAG
Well, I've done that. I can't comment on whether it was good in that particular instance but a 15/7 who limps UTG+1 I would usually give credit for suited b'ways, a small/medium pair or a suited Ace if the game was good. I think they're going to be pretty willing to give up on the flop most of the time and, IMO, reading their hand when they don't becomes somewhat straightforward.
I think there are merits to raising/calling/folding depending on the blinds and my image. Anyway, once you're on the flop I'd call there and raise the turn.
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#55
07-26-2005, 03:58 PM
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Re: Isolating a TAG
[ QUOTE ]
why would you do this with a hand that is either behind or way behind the TAG's? [/ QUOTE ] If the table is good I expect KJs/KTs/QJs/QTs/JTs as well as any suited Ace to be in his range. All of these hands will check/fold the flop most times they don't flop a pair/draw.
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#56
07-26-2005, 03:59 PM
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Re: Isolating a TAG
If you want to have a discussion of preflop play try some reading. A2 off is a terrible hand, so that makes the fold button very easy to push. And it is not close. The range of hands that I would limp under the gun (some of these I raise also) are AJo,A10 suited, KQo, 88, 99, 77, KT suited, Qj suited, J10 suited. So as you can see, you are well behind 5 hands and ahead of 4. Maybe this particular player has a wider range of hands they play utg, but this does not look like an advantageous preflop play. The deuce just gives you little chance of improvement. I would hope it is common knowledge around here that playing hands with a deuce or three greatly devalues your hand. The wheel potential does not make up for this deficit. You gain a psychological edge in the hand by raising preflop, but you still need to TAKE the pot and given the range of hands I listed, your preflop raise is either allowing your opponent odds to call on his better draws, or gain more of your chips.
As you see the the flop betting and the turn betting, you must now wipe away the non-Ace hands unless you think this player is capable of putting a play on you. The tags turn bet represents the ace, and you can be 100% sure that if he does have the Ace you are outkicked. Easy fold.
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#57
07-26-2005, 04:00 PM
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Re: Isolating a TAG
[ QUOTE ]
a 15/7 who limps UTG+1 I would usually give credit for suited b'ways, a small/medium pair or a suited Ace if the game was good. I think they're going to be pretty willing to give up on the flop most of the time and, IMO, reading their hand when they don't becomes somewhat straightforward. [/ QUOTE ] These were my thoughts immediately before I raised. [ QUOTE ] Anyway, once you're on the flop I'd call there and raise the turn. [/ QUOTE ] Can you give me a reasoning behind calling the flop and raising the turn versus my line of raising the flop?
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#58
07-26-2005, 04:04 PM
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Re: Isolating a TAG
[ QUOTE ]
That's why it's stealing and not raising with the best hand. [/ QUOTE ] This iso play is also a steal (as is a weak UTG raise). That's the point. My only problem with this hand it that it wasn't played postflop like a steal. [ QUOTE ] I'm not sure why people seem to get defensive sometimes [/ QUOTE ] If I came accross as defensive, I apologize. I just think people are too worried about the preflop play here when it looks to me like Crunchy made a pretty good read of the table. Maybe a better approach would be to ask you about the situation just before the flop. Do you think it's profitable to be in position against the BB and a guy who doesn't really like his cards and is probably looking for a reason to fold, regardless of your cards?
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#59
07-26-2005, 04:12 PM
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Re: Isolating a TAG
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Anyway, once you're on the flop I'd call there and raise the turn. [/ QUOTE ] Can you give me a reasoning behind calling the flop and raising the turn versus my line of raising the flop? [/ QUOTE ] If he wants multiple bets going in on a big street on an AK board you are absolute toast. If he's calling single bets to showdown the same is likely true. If he's betting when it's HU, he's betting your hand for you, which is fine if he has a flush draw. If you raise the turn you'll get the max out of a draw, have like a nearly zero chance of folding an Ace, and not have a decision where you ponder how straightforward he is when he bets the river, because he'll check most times.
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#60
07-26-2005, 04:14 PM
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Re: Isolating a TAG
[ QUOTE ]
If he wants multiple bets going in on a big street on an AK board you are absolute toast. If he's calling single bets to showdown the same is likely true. If he's betting when it's HU, he's betting your hand for you, which is fine if he has a flush draw. If you raise the turn you'll get the max out of a draw, have like a nearly zero chance of folding an Ace, and not have a decision where you ponder how straightforward he is when he bets the river, because he'll check most times. [/ QUOTE ] Cool - so then the river plan is to check behind or fold to a bet?
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