Why do Jews Reject Jesus - Part 2

[Peter666]

Under NO circumstances should you believe in the New Covenant or the New Testament as your arguments are air tight. You have clearly proven beyond reasonable doubt that Christianity is a make believe sham.

So now that a whole generation of heathens have been formed thanks to you (and rightly so) can you please tell us why we should believe in Judaism? A religion that worships a talking AND burning bush? I mean, the fact that it can talk I reluctantly accepted, but burning at the same time? My faith is weak man, help me my bagel loving brother.

[bossJJ]

When you actually look up many of the “prophecies” in the Hebrew bible, they say absolutely nothing about the messiah or anything that even sounds like Jesus (as he is described in the gt). For example, Christians claim that Genesis 3:15 is a messianic prophecy that Jesus fulfilled. In that verse, God says to the serpent, “…and I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he will strike at your head, and you will strike at his heel.” Christians claim that “her seed” refers to Jesus. However, it actually refers to EVERYBODY, because the whole human race is descended from Eve.

Christians also claim that the serpent is really the devil, although there is nothing in the text that even implies this. Christians go on to say that this verse means that the messiah Jesus will defeat evil, and therefore anyone “born of God” won’t sin (1 John 3:8-9). If this silly interpretation is true, then this is just another messianic prophecy that Jesus failed to fulfill.

According to the gt, sin abounds among Christians (1 Jn 1:8, 1 Tim 1:15,). And Paul gives as an excuse, “Satan hindered us” (1 Thess 2:18). So Jesus actually failed to defeat Satan; according to the gt, he (Satan) is still quite active in the world. Also, according to the Hebrew bible, Satan is just a another loyal servant of God, just like all the other angels. It is God himself who creates both good and evil (Is 45:7), and man has free will to choose one over the other.

www.outreachjudaism.org/satan.html

www.outreachjudaism.org/original.html


An example of taking a verse out of context is Hosea 11:1, which says, “When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.” Hosea clearly states that he is talking about ISRAEL, not the messiah. However, Matthew (2:14-15) didn’t understand this, so he made up this whole story about jesus’ family fleeing to Egypt, and Herod killing all the babies. (This never happened historically, btw. If something of this magnitude really had happened, someone would have written about it. Josephus wrote extensively about Herod’s atrocities, and he never mentions it.) .

Other so-called prophecies are so general that they could describe several people. For example, all Jews are the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and most are from the tribe of Judah. Yet some Christians claim that these verses (e.g. – Gen 12:13) are messianic prophecies. And all the other “prophecies” are similar. When the verses (from the Hebrew bible) are read in context, they say nothing at all about Jesus. They provide absolutely no proof of anything (other than the gt writers’ poor knowledge of Hebrew and Judaism). These prophecies are fulfilled only in the Christians’ delusional imagination. This site disproves many of the Christians’ “proofs” about Jesus:

www.outreachjudaism.org/questions.html
(Topics covered include Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 53, Psalms 22 and 110, and many others.)

[bossJJ]

It makes no sense for Christians to have the Hebrew bible as part of their bible, because they don’t really believe it. The facts, theology, and worldview of the Hebrew bible are totally contradictory to that of gt Christianity. It makes no sense to claim that you believe in both. That would be like someone saying that he is both a conservative and a liberal, or that he believes in abortion, yet opposes it. If a (true) conservative claims to believe in liberalism, we can be quite sure that he has no idea what liberalism really is. Christians follow and believe in the gt, not the Hebrew bible.

However, once a person becomes a Christian, it is very difficult for him to just read the bible in context, in a rational manner to try to understand what it says; he already has all these false beliefs (from the gt) that distort his understanding, so he tends to just sees Jesus everywhere, and to ignore what the verses really say. In short, he is brainwashed, and his false Christian beliefs blind him and make it impossible to interpret the bible correctly.

Christians generally become Christians for emotional reasons. It's an easy religion. You don't have to do anything, because it's "faith" that is so important, and you don't have to think for yourself. It offers eternal happiness with no effort. Thus the religion attracts a lot of losers, drug addicts, etc. When they become Christians, they just trade one addiction for another, and blindly accept all the garbage in the gt. It is an emotional crutch for them. They “check their brains at the door” and willingly believe all sorts of nonsense. They simply can’t accept (emotionally) that they might be wrong (and the Jews right), so they simply refuse to see (or even examine) all the evidence that disproves Christianity.

No matter how many of their “proofs” we discredit, they refuse to accept that they are wrong. They are never able to disprove any of our evidence (that Judaism is right), yet they cling even more tightly to their false religion. They have no ability to think rationally or logically: Jesus failed to fulfill all the messianic prophecies, yet they conclude that he was the messiah. The bible says that sincere repentance alone provides atonement for sins, and they conclude that a blood sacrifice is necessary. The bible says that everyone will come to the Jews for the truth in the messianic age, so they conclude that Judaism must be wrong and Christianity is the true religion. Etc, etc, etc. No matter what the evidence shows, or the Hebrew bible says, Christians will believe the opposite. Talk about spiritual blindness!

Christians NEED to believe in their false godman/messiah, so they just aren’t going to let facts interfere with their beliefs. This is called “cognitive dissonance.” The guy who came up with this theory studied a Christians sect that wrongly predicted that the world would end in a certain year. One would expect that when their predictions were proven wrong, they would lose their faith. However, just the opposite happened. Their faith was STRENGTHENED. They simply couldn’t bear to lose their religion, so they found ways to rationalize the wrong predictions and fit it into their faith. And this is exactly what the early Christians did when Jesus failed to fulfill any messianic prophecies.

[bossJJ]

All the proper conditions won't exist again until the messiah comes back.

[bossJJ]

Mohammed and Joseph Smith existed. Does that prove that Islam or Mormonism is true?

[vulturesrow]

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Mohammed and Joseph Smith existed. Does that prove that Islam or Mormonism is true?

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I was merely addressing your recurring contention that the NT is not historically accurate and the fact that Jesus didnt actually exist. Read for content.

[BluffTHIS!]

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All the proper conditions won't exist again until the messiah comes back.

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You are not answering my question. Since by your beliefs the messiah has not yet come, and thus had not come 2000+ years ago, how could the temple and sanhedrin existed then if they could only do so post-messiah? And if the answer is that God commanded their establishment back then, then how can you say they can only exist again post-messiah when there have been no additions to the hebrew bible since the last destruction of the temple to tell you so?

[bossJJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Under NO circumstances should you believe in the New Covenant or the New Testament as your arguments are air tight. You have clearly proven beyond reasonable doubt that Christianity is a make believe sham.

So now that a whole generation of heathens have been formed thanks to you (and rightly so) can you please tell us why we should believe in Judaism? A religion that worships a talking AND burning bush? I mean, the fact that it can talk I reluctantly accepted, but burning at the same time? My faith is weak man, help me my bagel loving brother.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think we worship a talking bush, then you are just demonstrating what a moron you are. Jews worship God alone. God spoke to Moses from a burning bush, but we don't worship a bush or think that it was God.

If you are so sure Christianity is true, just answer my questions and explain rationally why I should believe it.

You seem to imply that Christianity must be true because so many people believe in it. However, being popular doesn't mean something is true. That is discussed somewhat here:
http://www.outreachjudaism.org/experience.html

[Peter666]

I already told you clearly that I believe Christianity is a sham thanks to your argumentation.

Now I want to know why I should believe in Judaism (or Hinduism or whatever you believe in). You have not provided an answer and avoid this topic constantly by going back to smearing Christianity. So answer the God damn question:

What basis is there in believing that Judaism is the true religion?

[Zygote]

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My point was that Moses rebuts your claim that all other major religions depend upon one man while Judaism does not. Now, your claim about the one man stuff is not necessary for Judaism to be true, just an erroneous assertion that is an arguement for it to be true.

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The point is that 2-3 milliion people heard God when He gave Moses the Torah.

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Wait a minute. You mean 2-3 million saw the burning bush and God giving Moses the tablets? Or only heard Moses' claims about same, which would just reduce Judaism to one of many religions that depend upon the word of one man?

[/ QUOTE ]

2-3 million people supposedly heard god speak out the first two commandments. this is what he is refering to.

Here is a little piece taken from an interpretation of Parashat (weekly portion) Mishpatim (rules):

"Although Moshe ascended Mount Sinai by himself to receive the Ten Commandments written with the "Finger of Hashem," we must never forget that the Jewish People themselves heard Hashem speak the first two Commandments. Never again in human history would Hashem speak to an entire nation at once. Never again, as predicted by the Torah in Deuteronomy, would an entire nation even have the chutzpah to claim that Hashem spoke to their entire nation at once. Only Hashem Himself could convince several million men, women and children that they were hearing Him speak. Only Hashem could promise the Jewish People that no other nation would even claim that the experience was repeated for them. Hashem not only authenticated the first two Commandments, but He told the Jewish people that they would be able to trust Moshe when he went up the mountain to receive the rest of the Torah on their request."