Stars 500k hand disagreement between me and Raptor

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
22 is a marginal favorite against any 2 random cards. He has nothing to lose.

I don't see how you could fold a pair if you are short stacked versus a (perceived) complete maniac in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

how can you even say this? how are you short stacked with 9.5x the BB? im curious as to how that works. im not going to CALL for a GUARANTEED race or worse. period. ever if i have 9.5x the bb. its just awful. AWFUL i tell you. oh, and he has more than nothing to lose. he has his tournament on the line by making a terrible call. fold. please. holla

[SmileyEH]

[ QUOTE ]
22 is a marginal favorite against any 2 random cards. He has nothing to lose.

I don't see how you could fold a pair if you are short stacked versus a (perceived) complete maniac in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

The point is in a tournament situation its not about accumalating chips, it is about winning the most money. By simply not playing a hand the hero will move up spots over time and be able to make +$EV decision later on as well. In tournament play near the bubble, on the bubble, and once in the money you give up EV everytime you are all in, becuase you risk being busted. To make putting money into the pot correct, you must gain a significant amount of $EV to overcome this.

Llyod's arguement is basically discounting this fact by assigning only $13k of equity for folding. The hero in this spot has much much much more than 13k in equity if he folds every hand from now on.

-SmileyEH

[paperboyNC]

Question: I know the hero won the hand and finished 5th, but was he part of the chop? How much did he take home?

[SmileyEH]

I don't think he was part of the chop.

-SmileyEH

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
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22 is a marginal favorite against any 2 random cards. He has nothing to lose.

I don't see how you could fold a pair if you are short stacked versus a (perceived) complete maniac in this situation.


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The point is in a tournament situation its not about accumalating chips, it is about winning the most money. By simply not playing a hand the hero will move up spots over time and be able to make +$EV decision later on as well. In tournament play near the bubble, on the bubble, and once in the money you give up EV everytime you are all in, becuase you risk being busted. To make putting money into the pot correct, you must gain a significant amount of $EV to overcome this.

Llyod's arguement is basically discounting this fact by assigning only $13k of equity for folding. The hero in this spot has much much much more than 13k in equity if he folds every hand from now on.

-SmileyEH

[/ QUOTE ]

let me first start by saying i agree with a fold, though i totally disagree with yer reasoning behind it. i dont advocate folding yer way up the pay ladder at all. the money is in the top 3-4 spots for a chop, or first. i just simply treat calling for a race as the plague, and i try to avoid it at all costs. i will push all day as a decided underdog, but that is because of my good friend fold equity. ill take my chances waiting out an orbit or 2 before i make a call here with K10.. 22.. or.. Q6? holla

[ClaytonN]

How many BB's before this is an auto-call then, raptor? 4?

[raptor517]

ill autocall with 5x the BB. 6 i would think for 2 seconds and THEN call. holla

[11t]

As I understand it the hero (bb) in question was not going to get a chance to use any FE against the other stacks at the table.

If you have people bullying you sometimes you gotta take a stand, I wasn't watching the FT too intensely but as I understand it every pot was openraised by the big stacks so the short stacks never had a chance to buy and had to showdown hands.

Now, I don't think calling here with 22 is a very good play but I woudln't put it past the hero's range which is what was asked.

If this was the most +EV situation I thought I could come across than I would call with 22, however I normally only pull stuff like that when I was slightly more short stacked. I think the fact that hero didn't have to wait for anybody left to act behind him would open up his range a little bit as well.

[InkSea]

Moving in with 22 is very dangerous here - simply too much guess work. For one thing, you're getting at best 56/44 on the race; you have 9X the big blind, so why not be patient and wait for something a little more promising. My minimum here: 89 suited. Something with more possiblities, where maybe I can even dominate over a 79 or beat out something wild like a 45 or 67. Even if Stressa has AK or AJ, I'm at 36-40 percent. But that's doubtful she would simply go all-in with those hands, so chances are you're in pretty good shape with 89.

[kuro]

I don't know if this is the funniest thread in weeks or the saddest. Do you see why? Holla? Game theory at it's finest.