pokerstars 100/200 JTs

[YoureToast]

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I agree, most of these "donk bets" are NOT made by donkeys in this game, most of the time this bet is doing 1 of 3 things

1.setting up a flop 3 bet
2.setting up a turn checkraise
3.getting maxium value with a strong hand by playing it this way (AQ I would guess in this spot)

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I would add:

4.betting on a draw (in this case, a straight draw)
5.pure bluff

therefore, assumptions that villain has an Ace is often incorrect.

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
Stars 100/200 is basically all donkbetting right now. It seems like more hands have donkbet patterns than normal betting patterns. It is actually giving me a lot of trouble.

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i have noticed this lately as well.. especially from broksi!

[Senor Choppy]

If his opponent is betting as a one time stab at the pot, he's giving him a free shot to beat him. He's got position and can always check the turn if he misses, when he's no longer close to even money in the hand. Right now he has position and every bet is probably close to even EV, and if his opponent doesn't have an ace he's the favorite.

[bicyclekick]

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BK, you know I respect your play, but I HATE the flop raise.

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Uh, he's got a straight flush draw HU.

If you can't raise here you shouldn't be playing short-handed.

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Schneids is one of the best short-handed players on the site and he thinks a call is probably best. Say you had AT and he bet into you...are you raising?

[Schneids]

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I agree, most of these "donk bets" are NOT made by donkeys in this game, most of the time this bet is doing 1 of 3 things

1.setting up a flop 3 bet
2.setting up a turn checkraise
3.getting maxium value with a strong hand by playing it this way (AQ I would guess in this spot)

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I donk bet more than almost every single person on this site. Guaranteed. Nomar is the only one who's responding here who *understands* what the donkbet means by someone who isn't a total tard. Donk bets represent extremes. The guy is extremely weak, or extremely strong. Almost always. Why are we betting the turn? He folds the weak (since this ISN'T party 15 and he ISN'T getting a calldown from a crappy pair that may have weakly bet the flop to see where he was at) and he c/r's the strong.

The good donk better uses the donk bet to steal momentum from an aggressive player, hoping the aggressive player pushes harder and creates even stronger momentum, so the donk better can use the aggressive player's aggression against themselves.

[Senor Choppy]

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Say you had AT and he bet into you...are you raising?

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Against the people in the raise indicates weakness camp, definitely.

I don't really care who it is saying they flat-call the flop, against most people's ranges of hands, raising is +EV AND gives you more options on the turn. Calling here is awful.

[Subfallen]

One small point in favor of betting the turn is that you have now somewhat more convincingly portrayed your hand as an A. Now even if your opponent does have a check-raising hand, you get two bets on the river instead of one if you catch.

However, Schneids makes the most sense here, checking behind seems g00t.

[Ray Zee]

eric i cant believe i am seeing what some of those are advocating. either they play in smaller games where a bet is top pair or they are trying to play save a bet poker.
second pair with a straight flush draw and no real indication he has you beat and they are all falling over trying to check the hand out.
i would be mad i didnt get more action on the flop and couldnt care at all if i got checkraised, except for that might mean i was less likely to have the best hand. i too would three bet most people if they had the gumption to checkraise on the turn. most times i would also bet the river.

and by the way when i have a good made hand they dont find ways to escape so easily, while i am getting paid off by second or third pair or even ace high. if you play too carefully it becomes hard to win big pots from less than quality hands. but that is aside from the post.

[elindauer]

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and by the way when i have a good made hand they dont find ways to escape so easily, while i am getting paid off by second or third pair or even ace high. if you play too carefully it becomes hard to win big pots from less than quality hands. but that is aside from the post.

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I think you're right on here. I was going to mention that you have to 3-bet with more than your monsters in a 100/200 game, but decided a metagame discussion wasn't necessary as this turn is such a clear bet already.

Thanks.
Eric

[DcifrThs]

wtf...the donkbet reeks of a NOT ace i.e.: a hand that doesn't want KQ or hands like that getting an idea to check it out and doesn't want to c'r....when that J falls on the turn, not oly is your pot equity so high when behind, but the pr(Js are good) is just too high here to check. he can have pair hands under an ace, maybe a weak ace but i dont see that there and it certianly wouldn't c'r unless it thought you'd fold a better ace.

in fact, now that i look at the hand again, it really just looks like he's willing to see a showdown w/ whatever hand he donkbet the flop with.

i can't see checking here at all. not at 1/2. bet. and if he calls, value bet the river.

the REAL question here imo is whether to 3 bet a c'r...gotta think that one through but i'm leaning towards a 3bet if he c'rs

-Barron