Moral Dillema on PartyPoker

[Festus22]

There is part of the human condition that transcends EV.

If you can look in the mirror and say you did the right thing, then far be it from us to disagree with you. We all have a personally established sense of right and wrong. Yes, "society" has established those definitions in many cases and where they cross an extreme line, laws and punishment exist.

But in your case, only you can provide the answer. Look into your soul and see what you're character is all about. You know if you crossed your moral line or not. Given the fact that you posted this, I think you have.

[Enon]

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Don't you think there is a HUGE difference between not getting up from a full table (ie. keep playing) and OFFERING to play the guy H/U to take advantage of his "possible" mental situation.


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No. Tell me why.

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You took an active role in skinning him. Sitting at a full game is passive.

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Interesting distinction, but not a relevant one in my mind.

I suppose if for some reason everyone decided to leave this full NL table and it got heads up between us, taking his $1700 would be fine since I didn't technically 'initiate' the headsup match and sat down at the table unaware of his mental state.

[Enon]

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There is part of the human condition that transcends EV.

If you can look in the mirror and say you did the right thing, then far be it from us to disagree with you. We all have a personally established sense of right and wrong. Yes, "society" has established those definitions in many cases and where they cross an extreme line, laws and punishment exist.

But in your case, only you can provide the answer. Look into your soul and see what you're character is all about. You know if you crossed your moral line or not. Given the fact that you posted this, I think you have.

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I'd prefer to think this through logically by thinking about and responding to people's posts, rather than following my gut instinct [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[mmcd]

How the hell is the guy any more screwed if one person takes $1700 from him than if 9 people take $1700 from him??

Bingo.

[Lawrence Ng]

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What a good friend you are

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Ironically, your sarcasm is right.

[Lawrence Ng]

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Had you decided to play heads-up for $1000 a hand I would definitely question the quality of your friendship. But you didn't. You chose NOT to capitalize (to the fullest) on the opportunity presented to you. Sure you made some money off of Dr. Ng's perscribed therapy, but you didn't choose to fleese him like I think Enon did with this guy. And NO, friendship does not have anything to do with it. Greed and selfishness do.


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This is not about greed, or money. This IS about friendship. I'm not trying to exploit or take advantage of him. He knew fully well he was gambling. It was therapeutic for him. In the few hours he was there, he was in a willing suspension of disbelief. That helped him get his mind of suicide.

You wanna tell me a better way I can help my buddy, I'd love to hear it.

Some people, when they get depressed spend tons of money shopping, buying tons of stuff. Some people go on vacations. Some people do drugs. Some people drink copius amounts of alcohol. My friend didn't know what he wanted to do because he was so dazed and confused at that point in time. His outlet and relief came through the cards. Had he chose after 10 minutes of playing that it wasn't the kind of outlet for him to relieve his depression I would have gladly got off the table with him.

Lawrence

[James282]

Unless you harassed him into playing HU or goaded him your decision was fine by my book. This guy was playing online poker, and he decided that playing HU would be more theraputic than a full NL cash game. Enon presented him with that option, but this guy was going to lose his money either way, so why shouldn't it be to Enon?

And frankly, if this guy has a serious gambling problem and can not afford it, busting faster in this night is going to be much better for him than having the illusion that he has a chance to win. And by playing Enon he didn't have to sit and get berated by players who hate when someone greatly deviates from the norm. Now I can't say I would have ever offered this HU match, but I don't find Enon morally reprehensible in the least, and I am a Liberal!
-James

[bernie]

If i personally knew the guy, i'd likely take him aside and say something. If he chooses not to listen and blow his money anyways, it may as well be to me. I might call his wife and tell her the situation, but i'd still sit down and try and take his money. Would i give some 'back' to him. Hell no. Tough love he should've gotten long ago. Giving his money back will teach him nothing. There are no do-overs. As one responder said, if this type of session doesn't wake him up or teach him a lesson...

Get up from a full game with him? Absolutely not. Your 2nd question covers this. If many of these responders knew how many compulsive gambling addicts they have probably played with and took money from they'd go into a shell. It's part of the game. It happens. I don't expect any mercy rule to come into play when i'm playing. It also helps no one but one's own conscience to go 'easy' on the guy. Is it really helping? Or just prolonging the inevitable? My line for compassion ends at the inside of the table ring. I can feel compassionate for the guy and his wife while taking his money. Taking his money has nothing to do with it. It's business. It's poker. I mean, once you cross the line of going easy on a guy playing because of a sob story, where are you going to draw the line? Some are very blind to just how cold this game can be.

To the points:
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He claimed to be under the influence of heavy anti-depressants because of the stress he was under due to the death of his wife's newborn infant. I believed the authenticity of his situation because he was able to quickly give the names of the drugs he was taking, as well as refer us to a website with the heartbreaking account of his wife's pregnancy and the tragic death of the fetus.

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There's a reason i dont drink when i play. There's a reason i like when they drink or do whatever when they play. I don't care the reason why.

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Some people in the game obviously felt guilty and tried convincing him to stop throwing his money away. I attempted to do this too, but he claimed that gambling on poker was theraputic for him and that the money he was dumping at the table was an amount he could afford to lose.


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Need another reason, he says he can afford to lose it. Case closed. Who's to say to anyone what they can afford to lose or play mommy to them?

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So I figured if he wants to give away his money, I might as well get the rest of it in a 15/30 heads up match. Our 'competition' lasted about 50 hands before I cleared him out of his $1700. The maniac would cap every street with little to nothing and then when he finally busted, he begged me to transfer him some more money, because his weekly deposity limit was up

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Tell him you'll see him in a week. No way are you transferring money to him. Why? So you can win back your own money or he can blow your money to someone else? Who knows if he'll actually pay you back. Forcing him to stop in this way may actually help him.

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As I took a taxi back to my hotel after my session, I felt a little guilty about taking his money. It felt too easy. If he would have played halfway decently, or at least put up some sort of fight, I would have felt like I earned it. Instead, I felt more like I robbed the guy.

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Would you have felt this way if he went on a monstrous run and in short-term, kicked the hell out of you? Given the luck factor, i never feel like i robbed them. It's why i study the game. It's why i hope they don't study their games.

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At what point would you stop taking his money if party didnt put a cap on the amount he could transfer from his bank account

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When i got tired. Remember, he said he could afford to lose it. Any complaints from him afterwards i will repeat his own line back to him. If he cries about it, say it with Hallmark.

b

[zaxx19]

ID PROBABLY TAKE HIS MONEY IN THE RING GAME BUT THE REST REAKS OF BAD BAD KARMA.........IF SOMEONE ELSE WILL TAKE HIS MONEY LET IT BE ON THEIR HEAD IN THE MORNING MONEY IS IMPORTANT BUT ITS NOT EVERYTHIN EVEN IN POKER...IF I FELT AS THOUGH IT WAS ID PROBABLY CHEAT MY FRIENDS IN HOME GAMES AS IT WOULD BE VERY SIMPLE AND PROFITABLE..I COULD ALWAYS TELL MYSELF THAT SOMEONE ELSE PROBABLY WILL ANYWAY RIGHT??

[Dark Force Rising]

If this really bothers you and this discussion is not simply for academic purposes call Partys' support line and find a way to get the dough back to him.This way you will alleviate any "karma" or subconcious self-fulfilling prophecy.Then when the 200BB downswing hits you can take comfort in being an innocent victim.